Best way to cut down trees?

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Hey Russ, I heard that Otto and Walt teamed up and became chainsaw carneys, attending fairs and logging shows throughout North America. Otto demonstrates how to ring the bell three times while Walt collects the money and gives out the prizes.
But not really sure of their whereabouts as of late, cause they havent posted in a while.
John
 
I heard through the grape vine that they are spending all their time designing a new chain saw called the Waltotto...Rick

Creep on loggin'
 
not to worry ginger. them little thingees get me now an agin to.:) that particular ones called a sprocket. i think.
by the way next time that happens ,just turn u saw upside dn. cut better that way anyway.just kiddin ginger,hope u had a great 4th.
 
Hi Ginger,
I located a top-notch timberfaller who lives in Strawberry Valley. He is a real mountain man and will be at the Brownsville logging show. He does falling and bucking for a living and has wedges and hydralic jacks, etc. By the way, don't bother to assassinate any chicken just for Ken, we can pick up something along the way for him, like a road kill.
And about the picture of Dennis, John said he doesn't even look that good in real life, whew.
Art
 
Hi Ginger,
Heres a great chance for you to meet up with a real West Coast timber faller. He may be able to show you how to make some good money by taking some financialy mature timber off your property.
What size and species are your biggest trees? Has it been logged heavily in the past? Would you say there is any first growth trees there or would it be second growth?
Sorry about all the nosey questions Ginger, but I am just trying to give you some insight as to the value of your stand and the treatment I think it may require to get the most value and still keep your forest intact for future harvests. We dont want it to look like a bad haircut. lol
Anyway, I would take Art up on his offer so his friend may do a peliminary cruise just to access what you have there before you decide to cut.
John
 
>>P.S. Art, please dont be to hard on Ken for liking the odd >>cadaverous meal, someone has to keep the cattle industy >>going! Just kidding,lol.

Ken's into eating dead human bodies now? I certainly wouldn't blame him for being carniverous, but being cadaverous makes me invision him stealing cadavers out of the morgue, carving them up with a piped 084, then eating them. Way to go, KD!:eek:
 
u right about being careful w your timber.
honest . some is ,some aint.
no offence intended ,just my take on it.
in any case u playin there game ,an they know how to play better than u.
 
Hi Ginger, it is hard to estimate the value of timber on the stump, however you can be pretty close if you are aware of the markets and the quality of your trees.
The highest value wood comes from the butt log, meaning the first ten footer off the stump. This is where the highest grade is found. Logging in California is sometimes more involved than logging the Great Lakes, however hardwood is generally more valuable than softwood volume wise.
From your description of your trees, I would say there are some you have in the 12 ft. circumferance class. A conservitive estimate of their value may be 2 - 4 thousand $ per tree if sold to the right market. The trick is to eliminate the middle man who will literally hammer your forest and rob you blind.
Try to get a government forester who will make a forestry plan for you, but keep in mind they have no power of enforcement against those that want to rape and pillage.
If you have say 60 trees you think can go then get bids and watch them like hawks, cause most cutting is subcontracted out to those that get payed according to volume produced and dont really give a ????.
Sorry about the jaded view, but I am giving you the worse case senario. The right American markets pay more than any other market for good timber, then Asia, so dont sell your trees to anybody that says it is just another load of saw timber. Most sawmills and loggers will rob you blind if given the chance. Just leave it on the stump till you find the right forester, logger and markets. Forestry and logging is not cut and dried by any means and I dont wish to make loggers out to be bandits, its just that most of them are dependant pawns to bigger corperations.
Most loggers would rip my head off as I mouth these words, but this is what forestry has to come to.
The good news is that there is still alot of timber out there and I just want to put my 2 cents in there about what I have learned.
After all, it was the Finnish that taught me in the beginning about saws and forest management.

John
 
Good-Bye, Little Cabin

O dear little cabin, I've loved you so long,
And now I must bid you good-bye!
I've filled you with laughter, I've thrilled you with song,
And sometimes I've wished I could cry.
Your walls they have witnessed a weariful fight,
And rung to a won Waterloo:
But oh, in my triumph I'm dreary to-night --
Good-bye, little cabin, to you!

Your roof is bewhiskered, your floor is a-slant,
Your walls seem to sag and to swing;
I'm trying to find just your faults, but I can't --
You poor, tired, heart-broken old thing!
I've seen when you've been the best friend that I had,
Your light like a gem on the snow;
You're sort of a part of me -- Gee! but I'm sad;
I hate, little cabin, to go.

Below your cracked window red raspberries climb;
A hornet's nest hangs from a beam;
Your rafters are scribbled with adage and rhyme,
And dimmed with tobacco and dream.
"Each day has its laugh", and "Don't worry, just work".
Such mottoes reproachfully shine.
Old calendars dangle -- what memories lurk
About you, dear cabin of mine!

I hear the world-call and the clang of the fight;
I hear the hoarse cry of my kind;
Yet well do I know, as I quit you to-night,
It's Youth that I'm leaving behind.
And often I'll think of you, empty and black,
Moose antlers nailed over your door:
Oh, if I should perish my ghost will come back
To dwell in you, cabin, once more!

How cold, still and lonely, how weary you seem!
A last wistful look and I'll go.
Oh, will you remember the lad with his dream!
The lad that you comforted so.
The shadows enfold you, it's drawing to-night;
The evening star needles the sky:
And huh! but it's stinging and stabbing my sight --
God bless you, old cabin, good-bye!
 
While attending the Brownsville logging show last Saturday, the beetle infestation at the fair grounds and the adjoining properties was very evident. There was dead and dying trees all over. It seems to be spreading rapidly and will destroy that entire area unless something is done soon to remove those
infected trees. According to the announcer, who addressed the problem, it seems to be the environmentalists and the forestry service that are preventing the removal of the dead trees. Although quite a few of the trees on the fair grounds property had been remove since last year, more has to be done in that area.
Anyone with property that shows signs of the beetle infestation should act right away.
Art
 
John and Ginger,

Unless those trees are well over 24 inches across inside the bark at 40 feet off the ground, there is likely nothing worth over $1000 per tree. The export market has gone to pot, and $625 per 1000 board feet is tops around here. Same in Ca, I've heard.

Now if you have some that are clear (no knots) for 60-80 feet, and just a little bigger, you could have a 3000-4000 board foot tree. Then the value goes up quickly.

John, I'm pretty busy this week, so I won't see you til Clearwater late Fri nite or Sat a.m. But I do have some wood to split and stack, come on by. I'm only 1 minute off the freeway. And some 100 foot firs to fell in 80 foot back yards, should be right up your alley....Didja bring the balloon?
 
Ginger...that picture of me was taken at one of my weaker moments before I started using the bowflex...i am now a little bigger...;)

John will do you right...just dont feed him any alcohol...he has a tendancy to want to wear fishnet and put on makeup...but he is really harmless..

Here is John at his last meeting....
 
Mmmmmmm; Wow Miss Ginger (the movie star not proffesor or mary ann) from Strawberry Hill .....

i'm a lil guy and look at taking out one of the species of gi-ants of our world, like martial arts, kinda using size and leverage against something larger than you, so that u usher its superior size and strength to beat itself. So you choose your targets to experience.

Like, taking a knotch to the felling direction out, is like taking the chock out from under a tire, so force can flow smoothly and not build up. For a 40' lever with 1000# of head weight (tree)can put 20 tons of force that builds up (without speed factored in)and can have deadly levels of force exploding for disastourous results possible (splitting, barberchairing), happening right were you stand by tree with power saw! No-No bad! So by notching and taking that 'chock' out of the way, you are allowing the tree to fall, not tempting it not too, or pitting it against itself, by giving it this relief of that knotch.

The lines of this notch must meet precisely, not cross to be safest. For if they don't, you have a knotch within a knotch, so the inner knotch will command, and it is equivalent to just making a slash on the front of the tree (kerf cut) which can also be dangerous. So make it right, so it can werk right.
the knotch's mouth spread dictates the amount of travel before the 2 faces of the knotch are pitted against each other with all present force, so having this so early with a kerf or inner knotch is very dangerous. Cutting the knotch almost to the center, leaves the machine of the hinge operating through the widest strip of wood in the center, maximizing its potential as it faces its awesome job of moving all the weight and leverage to the ground safely.

Then, leave wood for a hinge as you backcut through to knotch, this is essential for safety and control of speed and direction, 2 very important factors. Once the hinge is detatched, u have no control over speed or direction. If you werk this way, the knotch will direct that the fall will be on its axis, so don't walk in front or behind the knotches face. Keep your backcut level, and higher than bottom face in conventional "L" knotch (2" recomended).

To get the tree to fall in the direction of choice, you have to power it into that face of the knotch. If it is leaning that way, (both the tree and the ballance of the heads weight) gravity will do the werk for you. If not you must adjust and usher the tree into that face by pulling at high leverage into the face, lifting with wedge from rear so that the front tips into the facecut, or adjsuting holding wood of hinge for some leans of the head's weight.

All this is raw machinery, so you walk away from questionable wood and roots, that could fail as you need them. i don't knotch in deteriated wood, 'cat faced' (disturbed/marbled grain), where limbs were etc. You always think of loose wood falling on you and where a brain bucket. You make sure way is clear for tree to fall,a nd head not brush/hang on anything on the way down, impeding the flow of force and calling on it rear its ugly side as it fights itself.

These as the others are jsut a few things of a facsinating and hazardous science. Of course there are all the safety items of chainsaw handling, personally i don't touch anything without a working chain brake. May i suggest practi-call experience with someone and checking out Dent's "Pro Timber Falling-a Proceduarl Approach" for more; it has long been a cheaper, standard book i think than some others over time, and its reviews go like:

"If the people involved in the manufacturing of logs would follow the procedures and techniques explained in this book, there would not only be less accidents, we would also utilize more wood from each harvest area. Once the Faller and Bucker lay the saw to a tree, it is like Humpty Dumpty, all the Foresters in the Northwest can't put it back together again, and theirein lies the need to do it right the first and only time around."

Crown Zellerbach

This book has been used for many years to train firewood cutters, loggers and personnel of various federal organizations (U.S. Forest Service, Bureau of Land Management, Bonneville Power Administration, Western Area Power Administration, National Park Service, U.S. Department of Labor (OSHA) and numerous state departments of forestry. Professional Timber Falling is the most comprehensive text of its kind available. It covers the full range of topics from bars and chains to the physical forces affecting the tree. An in-depth analysis of such topics as, the holding wood, backcut, undercut, stump shot, side boring, notching, jacking are thoroughly discussed and vividly illustrated. Quite simply, Professional Timber Falling teaches all chain saw users how to make it home safely every night through the use of safe, efficient and proper work practices."

Some of this is tough superman werk, but some a lil'MF'er with a saw can look at and form a strategy to. It rawly is so mechanical in its essence, so i have to talk that way even to a 'girl'. So i guess a lady can use these martial arts confidentally and walk out in the field and adjust things to allow them to happen to her liking without worrying about brute force if she is smart.

Kinda like a way,
in other,
Martial Settings;
She definitely can win!
Just be smart and don't let the big
guy fall on ya,
when ya trip'em up!

It is all exactly the same,
but diffrent!
 
I'm glad that I didn't read this disertation, formal discourse, doctorial thesis or whatever you would call it from The Tree Spyder before I became a West Coast Faller. If I had, I probably would just have went on to become a Captain in the fire department right away, I only needed 6 years of college for that. Timberfalling sounds too confusing.
Art Martin
 
It`s ok Art, you just need a little more meat in your diet. :D

TreeSpyder,
What does Dent's "Pro Timber Falling say about the open face notch... hinge or not to hinge?
 
Mornin', Art,

TS does have a way with words, eh?!

While he does ramble a lot, he is pretty darn knowledgable...

Gotta get some chain (s) from ya. With all my tricked saws, from littlest to biggest stock, I feel the need for speed.....

Too bad I didn't get some before the revival....but I still should be able to at lest beat gyro, the way he rocks out chain....


re Dent, arbormaster, etc and the open face,

When felling log lengths from heights, I often use a very closed face, to make the piece jump off the cut and rotate less, to allow it to land in the desired positon. I only use this method with vertical, straight grained conifers, ,no knot within 6 inches.

When I told this to Ken Palmer, he looked at me funny, and said I had a death wish. I diasagreed, you just gotta be wise....

Felling huge old growth, a small face suffices, the tree is well committed after only a few degrees of fall. Never done anything huge, just seen lots of pics, beranek's etc.
 
humblot,conventional and v-notch are no longer the safest way to fell trees. all these methods do is start the tree in the direction you want, once the notch has closed, the hinge breaks and controll is lost. open face bore cutting is the safest way to fell trees. the hinge is used not only for complete controll of the fell all the way to the ground it will hold the tree in place for loping and de-limbing. the tree can not move untill the hinge is cut. marty
 
Ginger, you can read all you want about falling trees but nothing matches actually doing it...get someone out there and get them to give you some "hands on experience"..I would be more than willing ;) I may be in that area in September...

Maybe Art, Ken and myself can give you a hand...and I am sure that creep Gypo will show up...
 
den,
john was saying that if you are willing to go help ginger he will keep an eye on your place while you are gone. something about a new book keeper you have. marty
 
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