Bio Bar oil?

[Oregon_Native]

i am getting back in to my winter routine and thinking about all the fire wood i need to cut for the coming years, and was wondering if there is any way to convert used cooking oil ( from turkey fryer ) in to good usable bar and chain lube.

i know it can bu used straight but it requires a lot more of it.

are there any additives that can be added to make it more sticky?

 

[PWB]

Just filter it and dump in in the fuel tank of your diesel truck/tractor whatever at about 10%, then buy oil for the saws

 

[NevadaWalrus]

Not sure but you may need do nothing other to filter it for winter use. The smell might make you hungry long before meal time.

 

[rustyb]

West Texas,

Not sure I understood your post. Are you implying there could be negative ramifications to using cooking oil?

 

[Patrick62]

And the point is . I fail to see the concern in saving a few bucks on bar oil. My ol' man used to run a little used engine oil, You have to think about the dirt getting in the pump, and the lack of proper lube on the chain. Then there are eco-nuts that want to run enviro friendly bar lube! For what gain? Is a few drops of oil really gonna trash out the place? Maybe someone needs to get a video shot of a big honking saw hooked to a 55 gallon barrel of lube with a oil pump that flows something like a gallon a minute (oil spraying everywhere!) and post that where the nuts will see it!!
Jeez that might even be a fire hazard!

Considering the price of fuel, the bar oil is cheap.

-Hill

 

[dustydog72]

There is a product called "Hytach" that is used in motor oil to make it sticky. My grandfather used it in oil he got from a local airplane engine builder. He never had any trouble with that but Iam not sure how it would work in cooking oil.

 

[Diesel JD]

I used some biodiesel as bar oil, but I don't know if that was agood idea or not. Stuff is very good at protecting and lubricating moving mechanical parts but nowhere near as viscuous as bar oil. I seem to also remember that bar/chain oil has some sort of anti-sling additives in it to help keep it in place. That said, I never ran the bar and chain dry. It was just an experiment they are pretty far gone anyway. Wouldn't try it on the new saw, or the old saw witha new bar and chain! Now the WVO, might work, since the saw manufacturers state that you can use the correct grade motor oil in an emergency. I have used Rotella-T 15W40 in my 025 with no problem. Your WVO is probably pretty similar to that in viscocity, especially in cooler weather. But the crap will gel up in temps less than 35-40 degrees, warmer, depending on what it is.
J.D.

 

[Lakeside53]

According to Stihl, who sells tanker loads of their canola oil based bar oil in Europe (and a little here), you absolutely should not use straight bio oils. Straight oil will combine with resins in the wood and oxygen to form a tough plastic resin that will ruin the bars, chains, drive systems etc. Stihls version has additives not only to make it sticky, but to make it "non-resin forming". Think of it like Linseed oil. Looks great in a bottle, but it is the base of most oil-paints.... You can buy Stihls "Bio-Plus" bar oil through any dealer, but they probably don't stock it. If you are cutting BBQ wood, or for smoking fish, it's a must. Unfortunately it's not going to become popular as it lists for about $18.00 per gallon.

It's only a matter of time before the EPA figures out that the oil in the fuel is not the problem.... and that the millions of gallons of bar oil sprayed into the environment is a far greater problem.

 

[rustyb]

Lakeside53,

Of course Stihl is going to say that. Saying otherwise surely wouldn't help their finacial status. But, to play devils advocote here, perhaps there is some truth to what they say. If so, how long does it take for these detrimental effects to take place? I have been running straight Canola oil in all four of my saws now for about 8-9 months (nothing w/ more than an 18" bar). No problems at all. And, vegi oil obviously isn't as big of a burden to the ecosystem. (there are some other members of the board who have been using straight vegi oil for a very long time. Hopefully they'll chime in)

Also, two more things that no one has mentioned in this thread. 1) I think it's great not being fully dependent on the petroleum industry. 2) What about the long term effects to the operator? Inevitably, bar oils are being absorbed into the skin and inhaled even if in small amounts. I have yet to see any scientific study but I'm betting that oil in which you can cook your food with is easier on the body. Hey, Hill. Lets see you prepare your next stirfry with petro based bar oil.

Eco-nut

 

[Tree Machine]

I have a good deal of experience with this. I've volunteeed to be the Guinea pig for this 'experiment' and have committed to offering up my saws to the the bio-oil gods in an attempt to gain real, useful, direct, authentic, empirical information.

I've been using straight off-the-shelf corn oil, soybean oil or canola oil for three Summers and two Winters, and am now going into my third Winter. I have 4 saws; two 346XP's (one power ported the other stock) and a 394 and a 395. None of these saws has ever seen a drop of petroleum-based bar oil and they're all doing just fine.

As far as your fryer oil, usually they use peanut oil for frying turkeys as it can withstand higher temperatures than most, but I avoid it because its more expensive than the oils I listed above. It works just the same, but why spend more money than you have to?

The money is not really the issue for me between using veg oil over petro. Over the years, the price per gallon has been very much the same. Though currently petro oil is on the rise and veg is not. Part of it is convenience as I can pick up a couple gallons while grocery shopping, but mostly it is health. Regardless of the amount of tackifier in an oil, it will still spin off the bar. This is proven by the fact that when you run a tank of bar lube through, it is gone, left as a gift from us to the environment.

I got tired of petro bar oil getting on my cloths and tools and benchtop and having groundies overfill and basically just having sticky, smelly petroleum-based bar oil as a film on all my stuff. It's hard to avoid, petro bar oil has this ability to get on whatever it happens to be near. It doesn't wash out of cloths very well either and I'm just not comfortable with it in contact with my skin, whether pure motor oil or tackified bar and chain lube.

Then there's breathing it. Not so bad when on the ground, but I'm a climber. I use my saws in all kinds of funky positions and the wind can be coming back at me. Oil, no matter what kind, tackified or not, gets spun off the bar in little tiny atomized droplets and drifts onto whatever is in the area, including yourself. We try to minimize this, but the fact is, we breath this. If I have a choice of having to breathe either tackified petro oil or food-grade vegetable oil (and I DO have a choice) then the choice would be the less toxic of the two.

In trying to keep this post brief, I'll end here by saying, in my last severel years of experience running veggie oil Summer and Winter, I believe I have answered any questions there might be. I'm not some enviro-nut, but rather a person who questions conventional 'wisdom' and who is unwilling to believe something simply because that's the way it's always been done.

Gentlemen, if straight corn oil was in any way a problem to the saw, the oiler mechanism, the bar, the bar tip, the chain, sprocket, clutch, gaskets or any other part of the saw, I would tell you because if I were to give false information, the first guys to try it out would disprove it, and I would be a fool.

All it takes is a thin film of oil between two smooth steel surfaces to overcome friction. That's the physics of it. That's the bottom line. European countries are using expensive, tackified bio-oil which is about 99% vegetable oil ( I can substantiate that number). I set out to see if the tackifier is really needed and I have shown, having run hundreds of tanks of straight vegg oil over severel years in a full-time commercial tree care setting that we really need to question the information we've been fed and have come to believe as truth. Step outside of that box, look at the facts and resist staying with the petroleum mindset just because that's the way it's always been. Test it yourself. Run a gallon of corn oil. See it, feel it, touch it. Experience it. Don't believe me. Don't hold to you past convictions passed on by others. Get the information firsthand, directly by personal trial.

Then, if you have questions about things like running the oil at Winter temperatures, and oxidation properties I have pictures and published information on chemical properties and characteristics, as well as firsthand experience. I also have ordered pure Tack and understand it a good deal, outside of it being mixed with oil.

I have nothing personal to gain, no money to be made, no motive in contributing my personal time here except to share good, solid information.

 

[rustyb]

This is what I'd like to be able to write.

"I'm not some enviro-nut, but rather a person who questions conventional 'wisdom' and who is unwilling to believe something simply because that's the way it's always been done".

"Step outside of that box, look at the facts and resist staying with the petroleum mindset just because that's the way it's always been. Test it yourself. Run a gallon of corn oil. See it, feel it, touch it. Experience it. Don't believe me. Don't hold to you past convictions passed on by others. Get the information firsthand, directly by personal trial".

Thanks for your post Tree Machine. My sentiments exactley, in everyday life.

 

[West Texas]

Well this turned out to be good post. I learned something new again.

 

[Tree Machine]

Some will vehemently oppose my point, but I would ask, first, if they have tried it. Next if they have some vested interest in supporting petroleum and last if they're just close-minded to new things in general.

Humans have some unique quality in wanting to hold true to things they believe, which is OK, I'm sure I have some of that in me, but we're talking about your health here. The saws, we've proven, are OK with it. It's the people using the saws that are attached to the way they've always done it and the way everyone else around them is doing it. But we're all doing it for the same reason; no other economically feasable way has ever been suggested. For this sole reason we stick with the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality.

Please don't perceive me as being self righteous. I'm not dogging anyone for using petro bar oil, nor do I think I'm better in any way. I'm just sharing information that I think can be helpful to you personally, to our industry and for the environment. Few of us have anything to gain by supporting the petroleum giants. They're not rewarding us for using more. There's no thanks, no benefits to your family unless you sell it for a profit. We're not petroleum sheep. We're tree men and loggers. Our living comes from our association with the environment. If we can be more sensitive without any additional cost or modifications then is it not a free, painless invitation to try?

 

[Patrick62]

That is interesting!

I am gonna have a Penzoil stir fry next Sunday, with lubrimatic for a side dish! Okay, I had no idea that vegi oil would work for that. I used to work in a restaurant and we got the stuff (Fluid fry?) in 5 gal pails. Not sure exactly what else is in there. but at room temp it was liquid. Of coarse you could also get a product we used to use called "pan and grill" artifical butter flavored stuff. That would drive 'em nuts !!!! What kind of wood are you cutting? It smells like.... butter?? Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

Next would be to figure out how to make a Diesel chainsaw. Then you could run everything off the same tank!

-Hill

 

[Simonizer]

Some will vehemently oppose my point, but I would ask, first, if they have tried it. Next if they have some vested interest in supporting petroleum and last if they're just close-minded to new things in general.

Humans have some unique quality in wanting to hold true to things they believe, which is OK, I'm sure I have some of that in me, but we're talking about your health here. The saws, we've proven, are OK with it. It's the people using the saws that are attached to the way they've always done it and the way everyone else around them is doing it. But we're all doing it for the same reason; no other economically feasable way has ever been suggested. For this sole reason we stick with the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality.

Please don't perceive me as being self righteous. I'm not dogging anyone for using petro bar oil, nor do I think I'm better in any way. I'm just sharing information that I think can be helpful to you personally, to our industry and for the environment. Few of us have anything to gain by supporting the petroleum giants. They're not rewarding us for using more. There's no thanks, no benefits to your family unless you sell it for a profit. We're not petroleum sheep. We're tree men and loggers. Our living comes from our association with the environment. If we can be more sensitive without any additional cost or modifications then is it not a free, painless invitation to try?

You are a very intelligent man.

 

[Diesel JD]

I

Next would be to figure out how to make a Diesel chainsaw. Then you could run everything off the same tank!

-Hill

That sounds good, I bet it has been done, but it sounds heavy! I will be getting some canola for my chainsaws soon too, and everyone can think I'm an eco geek too, but even if I have to replace the bar/chain slightly sooner, I'll still prob. be $$$ ahead

 

[Stumper]

Just a note in support of Jim's position. Vegetable oil actually works BETTER than tackified bar oil. No tack additiv eis needed. Yes, it will oxidize and harden-If you store a saw for a long time the stuff in the bar groove will get gummy. Fresh oil cuts the gummy oil so It is a complete non issue in saws that are used regularly. The area on top of the clutch cover on my saws has gotten a little gummy after long periods of use without regular wipe downs. The area inside the cover gets sprayed wilth fresh oil repeatedly so that area has never gotten gummy. Chains stretch less with straight veggie oil compared to conventional bar oil. I've run it in my Power Pruner and climbing saw for several years---and about a year in the big saws with bar lengths up to 36". Veggie rules.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

TM adn Stumper,

Thanks for taking the time to post.

I've written my share of lines on this subject in the past and don't feel like repeating myself. My epxeriece is the same as yours. No damage and it's cheaper.

At one time, long before Columbus, the general knowledge was that if you sailed west from Europe you'd fall off the edge. But, scientists had already done the research to show that the earth was round and they also knew, again long before Chris hustled his trip, what the diameter of the earth was. It takes someone with a practical urge to "prove" what is known buy some people.

 

[Tree Machine]

It still amazes me how the use of plain old vegetable oil has escaped us for so many decades.

My use of it started because of my wife. She has asthma and is hypersensitive to anything with an odor. I would wash my grimy stuff and when she would throw in a wash she would tell me the washer smelled like a chainsaw. It was usually after I washed my chainsaw pants, which would get worn for a number of days between washings. One day she said, "Smell this..." she was talking about her t-shirt. "It smells like your tree truck!" I swore I couldn't smell a thing, but she could. Bar oil residue crossed over into the next load of wash. She uses cold water and as little detergent as possible.

In trying to Tree Machine-proof the house for her health's sake I installed an outdoor shower and a laundry chute that goes from the outdoor shower right into the basement laundry room. We were considering buying a second washer since I now had hot water running outdoors. We're figuring the costs on all of this when she says, "Why don't you just use vegetable oil?" I sez "Baby, that's pretty silly." "Why?" "Because....."

And that is where it started. I began with the worst case scenario.... what is the WORST thing that can happen? I drew up scenarios of oiling mechanisms gumming up, the bar groove turning hard with varnish, excessive wear and tear on the bar and chain, and vegg oil turning rock solid in the Winter. I didn't step lightly into the trial. I converted immediately, 100% on all saws, as well as the power pruner; even the big saws and the three foot bars.

To my amazement, after a number of months, nothing had changed except the smell of my cloths and a less industrial smelling tree truck. A year later, and having worked through a full Winter, still finding it hard to believe, veggie oil performed not only flawlessly, but what I felt as better than bar and chain lube. Honestly, it was hard to believe it was true. I would work the crap out of the 395 in huge wood just being abusive and relentless in trying to find the outer performance limits of veggie oil in a chainsaw, deliberately trying to find the failing point. I still have yet to find it.

I appreciate your earlier compliment, Simonizer, but it is my wife, Elizabeth, who's the schmart one in the family. Also, the line I wrote about 'only a thin film of oil is needed between two smooth steel surfaces'.... that defining fact I stole from Stumper from an earlier thread where we were spillin blood over this topic. That was a rougher crowd, and the use of straight veggie was just too much to believe for most, everyone clinging tightly to their tack beliefs and alone I stood my ground on this because by the time that thread had started I was into my second full year and I knew beyond any doubt that veggie oil performed as good or better than tackified petroleum bar oil. Veggie oil needed to be defended.

It felt like me against the world, and then Stumper stepped up with his trials. Then Tom Dunlap came out of the veggie oil closet. Then Sweden told us they're simply not allowed to use petroleum-based bar oil in their country, had been using bio oil for years. Then it didn't seem so foreign to a few more of the guys.

So I thank the dudes who gave it a try and decided for themselves. It lent a lot of legitimacy to the possibility that straight vegetable oil can completely replace conventional bar oil, and now, nearly a year later since those threads the results are still the same. Rusty B converted last year and his findings are the same as the other veggie oil users...... no ill effects. No compromise in any way, it just works as you would want it to work.

Still, you read this and just find it hard to believe. Well, that's OK. We get programmed certain ways and we stay attached to what we think is 'right'. I remember being crushed when I was told there really was no Easter Bunny, but I got over it. I just couldn't conceive when I was told that some day we wouldn't use money, but we would pay for things using a plastic card, HA! Yea, right. And that sugar would be replaced by products that tasted like sugar but weren't really sugar. What would be the purpose of THAT? Information would be stored on chips of silicon??? When donkeys fly. And we're gonna put little vehicles on the planet Mars, how the heck are we to believe that? Dreamers. Crazy talk. Just crazy, those people.

 

[Oregon_Native]

Diesel Chain saw!

there was such a unit years ago it was built by jonsereds back in 1954.