Bio Bar oil?

[Tree Machine]

I'm not an enviro Nazi, but I love recycling. Everything I can, including 100% of the tree waste from my tree biz. It all gets processed for reuse, nothing hits the landfill.

It's not difficult if you shift and make it a lifestyle. I haven't been to a landfill in 9 years, and that one was a termite issue. Veggie oil keeps your sawdust and chips 'organic', the eventual soil it becomes is not tainted.

I drive an SUV, so I'm not really part of that solution, I just try to not be wasteful.

 

[mbb]

The only real reason chainsaw mfg say to use only bar/chain oil is because thats what they can make money selling. This is not an uncommon business strategy.

Now, I dont know too much vegetable oil. But CASTOR oil (from the castor bean) is a great lubricant. Environmentally friendly and food grade too. This is used in fuel of model airplane two stroke engines, providing the only lubrication. Was used as lubricant in real airplane engines in early days of aviation, . I dont know of any drawbacks to it. Anyone tried it? More expensive than veggie oil though, but prob not much so if bought in bulk.

 

[zuren]

Very interesting thread!!!! My aspiration to refurb. one of my father's old saws brought me here and I'm learning all kinds of tricks and info that I will pass along to him.

I drive a gas powered car but someday I will have a grease car!

http://www.greasecar.com/

Ideally, I'd like to have a Jeep with a transplanted diesel, carrying our veggie oil lubed chainsaws into the woods!

 

[Tree Machine]

Ideally, I'd like to have a Jeep with a transplanted diesel, carrying our veggie oil lubed chainsaws into the woods!

I'd like to be running straight biodiesel in both the vehicle and the chainsaw lube system.

I have zero experience with biodiesel (free fatty acids), except for understanding it chemically. I've never touched it, but I sorta think it would be slippery. I know glycerol is sticky, and kind of sweet-tasting, and since it is the glycerol being taken out of the fat molecule, the remaining part should logically be slippery. Anyone ever felt the stuff?

 

[zuren]

I'd like to be running straight biodiesel in both the vehicle and the chainsaw lube system.

I have zero experience with biodiesel (free fatty acids), except for understanding it chemically. I've never touched it, but I sorta think it would be slippery. I know glycerol is sticky, and kind of sweet-tasting, and since it is the glycerol being taken out of the fat molecule, the remaining part should logically be slippery. Anyone ever felt the stuff?

Here is some reading:

www.biodiesel.org
http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/Performance.PDF

I have never physically touched the stuff, but based on discussions with VW owners who drive the TDI diesel engines, the stuff works quite well. Lubrication is better and cetane rating (diesel equivalent to octane) is higher. The only limitation is the performance tuned turbo engines have trouble with the higher concentrations (B20 [20% biodiesel] and greater) due to flow through the system and the injection pump. European automakers market some of their diesel engines as being bio-friendly, but only at the lower concentrations (B20 or less). Common rail, mechanically injected diesel engines (non-turbo diesels) do much better with this fuel.

 

[2Coilinveins]

I'm curious as to where you heard that higher concentrations of BD don't work in a performance tuned engine.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/01/b100_dragster.html

 

[zuren]

I'm curious as to where you heard that higher concentrations of BD don't work in a performance tuned engine.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/01/b100_dragster.html

I didn't say "wouldn't work", I said "have trouble". I was also implying this for a normal consumer with a car under warranty and having to weigh the benefits of long term use versus potential consequences. I'm sure a biodiesel dragster would run great on B100. But I bet it is also being rebuilt after every trip to the strip so long term use can't be empirically measured very well.

After years of perusing forum boards, there is a thought that biodiesel in higher concentrations with a higher resistance to flow can stress the injection pump (operating at 13,000+ psi). There are also some concerns that some of the chemical components in the biodiesel can weaken plastics and seals currently used by engine manufacturers. Also, poor quality biodiesel that hasn't completely reacted can deposit glycerin into the fuel tank and fuel system. Now you have a gel getting sucked into a pump operating at very high pressure. A lower performing, mechanically injected engine could experience these issues as well, but I've been led to understand they are more tolerant over time. If you are aware that one of these issues could come about, they can be easily circumvented (additives for improved flow or petro/bio mix, replace seals with inert bioD friendly ones, monitor the quality of fuel). Most fleets that I've read about use B5-B20 fuel and I guess Minn. has imposed a B2 requirement for all highway fueling stations.

I'm not preaching gospel, only what I understand the case to be. I would be pretty upset if I wanted to do good by Mother Earth and run B100, but end up with voided warranties and damaged components due to lack of awareness.

But back on topic, TM, is there a particular brand of veggie oil you use opposed to another? Anything else to keep in mind if this stuff is to be used for a session of cutting, then the saw will sit for a month or 2?

 

[Tree Machine]

Well Thank you, Man. I'm learning all kinds of things.

 

[Pilsnaman]

I understand that vegi oil is thinner then the stihl petro and I did have to turn the oiler down a lot with the vegi, it was a hot summer durring the time I tried it. It just seemed to make more cake up around the sprocket and chain brake area as compared to the stihl petro. If I am the only one to notice this then it might be worth trying again, just see what will happen. Oh, and I know that the oiler runs even at idle on my saw but I really don't let it idle much past warmup. Thanks for the great info, all the experience is really helpful.

 

[PWB]

Biodiesel suffers the same problems as regular diesel with "gelling", only more so. Depends on what oil was used to make the biodiesel. Oils like palm work the best, even without going through the process of making them "biodiesel" (esterfication?) you can use almost any base , but the higher the solidification temerature, the worse the problem. If it "freezes" into a fat at the temerature you want to use it at as an oil, it will as "diesel" too. That's why some cars heat the grease before using it, and skip all the chemistry.

Been doing a little research because I'm seriously considering setting up a small lab to make my own "biodiesel" as opposed to doing the heated grease setup, mainly because I have a truck, two cars, a tractor, and a road grader that all run on diesel. Between the two volkswagens and the truck, I'm running about 100,000 km a year(60,000 miles). That's a lot of fuel.........

The key to this is finding a source of used oil that has a low "frezing" temperature.