Bio Bar oil?

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Just as an additional comment I've been using straight canola since the posts a year or so ago. I really don't cut that much, just firewood, so I drain the oil tank when I put the saws away thinking it would be less likely to get rancid from sitting around on the shelf. Just for fun this spring I mixed up a gallon of gas/canola at 32-1 and ran it in my old Mac string trimmer. I know a gallon is not much of a test but the little Mac ran just fine, smoked very little, smelled good, and there was no aparent wear on the piston when viewed from the exhaust port. I think it is the University of Minn that has published data on using straight canola as lube in IC engines. The tests look very promising.
John.........
 
That cracks me up.

Veggie oil as an energy source, to burn in other words, is a concentrated hydrocarbon source of plant derived energy. It's converted sunlight, with a canola plant doing the conversion.

We can put this stuff in engines straight, but there's a part of the oil molecule that doesn't like to burn, and it coats your chainsaw's innards. At 32:1 it might take awhile for things to coat up with residue, but it will.

Now, if the the section of the oil molecule that doesn't burn well can be removed, we have a clean-burning, non-toxic, purified liquid energy source, what we affectionately know as biodiesel.

Biodiesel is trigyceride with the glycerol whacked off of it. Straight free fatty acids. Nothing but 17-20 carbon fragments of linear-chain carbon backbones with hydrogens all over them. Plant-derived hydrocarbons.

Is that cool, or what? I think biodiesel could be run at 10:1 mixed with ethanol in a chainsaw. It would be the bio-saw with no reliance whatsoever on petroleum-based sources. 100% plant-based fuel and lubrication. If we could convert wood to ethanol (strong acid hydrolysis), then heyyyy......

Ok, I'll shut it off here. This is crazy talk. I'm sounding like one of them, 'tree huggers'.
 
"I think biodiesel could be run at 10:1 mixed with ethanol in a chainsaw. It would be the bio-saw with no reliance whatsoever on petroleum-based sources".

Seriously? If so, cool! But, who's going to step up to the plate and start testing?

Anyone,...... anyone?
 
I stand amongst the greatest chainsaw minds on the planet. The talent definitely exists in these here parts.

Rusty said:
But, who's going to step up to the plate and start testing?

Anyone,...... anyone?
 
Ulrich Chemical is getting us a price on one gallon linoleic acid, and 10 gallons 95% (denatured) ethanol. She was asking why I needed this, and I told her. I think we perked up her afternoon.

Hey, I came across a site some time ago as I was web surfing and seeing what the Ethanol industry was like. I Googled ethanol+wood. I got arkenol.com this might be interesting to some of you. http://arkenol.com/Arkenol Fuels/index.htm The first three sentences will tell you so much.
 
tree machine, thanks for bringing this up again.

did catch something by TomD on this very topic a while back.

sure helps to have feedback backedup by solid science and most importantly day to day use.
 
Warning! The words 'sperm' and 'vagina' appear in the story that I just linked to. So, if the words 'sperm' and 'vagina' bother you don't click on that link. And grow up.
John.......
 
Tree Machine said:
That cracks me up.

Veggie oil as an energy source, to burn in other words, is a concentrated hydrocarbon source of plant derived energy. It's converted sunlight, with a canola plant doing the conversion.

We can put this stuff in engines straight, but there's a part of the oil molecule that doesn't like to burn, and it coats your chainsaw's innards. At 32:1 it might take awhile for things to coat up with residue, but it will.

Now, if the the section of the oil molecule that doesn't burn well can be removed, we have a clean-burning, non-toxic, purified liquid energy source, what we affectionately know as biodiesel.

Biodiesel is trigyceride with the glycerol whacked off of it. Straight free fatty acids. Nothing but 17-20 carbon fragments of linear-chain carbon backbones with hydrogens all over them. Plant-derived hydrocarbons.

Is that cool, or what? I think biodiesel could be run at 10:1 mixed with ethanol in a chainsaw. It would be the bio-saw with no reliance whatsoever on petroleum-based sources. 100% plant-based fuel and lubrication. If we could convert wood to ethanol (strong acid hydrolysis), then heyyyy......

Ok, I'll shut it off here. This is crazy talk. I'm sounding like one of them, 'tree huggers'.


I'm pretty sure that the glycerides improve canola's ability to lubricate which is what we were talking about here. Not using it as an energy source.
John
 
Just as a note, I tried the canola oil in my eco for a number of tanks and while it did seem to lub everything just fine I did notice one negative. The oil made the chips stick together and to the saw more then the stihl oil I normally use, forcing me to clean it more often. Don't know if I am the only one to notice this or not but thought I would through it in the fire.
 
Don't know if that's a real negative or not. I tried running some biodiesel along with the gasoline and oil mix in my Stihls and that's right before I started having trouble. Not much biodiesel mind you, maybe a a couple of teaspoons to a tank of 50:1 mix.
 
As biodiesel is not at all meant to be run in a 2 stroke engine as either fuel OR lube, I wouldn't call it a negative.

Edit: two stroke GASOLINE engine. Detroits don't count.
 
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John said:
I'm pretty sure that the glycerides improve canola's ability to lubricate which is what we were talking about here. Not using it as an energy source.
John
True, we should stay on topic here.

As a lube, Pilsnaman says
The oil made the chips stick together and to the saw more then the stihl oil I normally use
And canola is actually less sticky stuff than regular bar lube. Maybe you've got your oiler set too high, Echo top handled saws pump oil, even when they are left to idle for any amount of time. Turn your oiler down and see what happens.

Cleaning your saw a couple times a week is not unusual. It becomes especially easier in the Colder months. When weather gets subfreezing regular bar oil gets thick, along with it's stickiness and digging out a thick, sticky sawdust-imregnated bar groove can be a real pain. With canola, it doesn't have those 'thickening properties' that petro has, nor the stickiness. Cleaning out the bar rails is a joy even when frozen, very quick and clean and slippery. It flows very well below it's freezing point, and even though it changes appearance, it lubricates and flows consistently at all our working temperatures.
 
Good thread, it's about time. If you do a search on the site for veggie oil you'll find quite a bit. I have used nothing but veggie in my saws, with great results. I like it, my saws like it, and my clothes like it. As an aside, I especially like it for milling duty, as it does not stain the wood. It also quells the fire in my environmentally-sensitive wife, who otherwise objects to smelly, noisy things like chainsaws... don't discount the annoyed wife factor!!

Very good thoughts on biofuel. I will add, though, that to convert everything to biofuel would require twice the arable land we now use... that's a biggie, eh? Nonetheless, these idea and many others are excellent ones. I JUST read an article that indicated that the sale of large SUVs are down. Lets face it, gents, our problem is NOT that we don't have good ideas.. we have some really viable option here. THE problem is that we are in the pockets of people who make our decisions for us and that, even though we as individuals can be very smart, collectively, we have the memory of a grapefruit. Large SUVs? Such large vehicles should have gone away in the 1970s when everything was as obvious then as it is today. We have been railroaded into thinking that we can, should, and must be driving big, powerful, gas guzzling vehicles and it ticks me off that we (the collective we) have been so foolish to buy it all, hook, line, and sinker.

The challenge for us, dear friends, is not one of ideas, it is of committment, consistency, and PERSONAL action. Ask yourself why many people DON'T recycle and yet are still convinced that they are model americans. I'm sure I've just insulted many people with this statement, but I don't mean to. My point is, it is not enough to CARE, we must also DO. Oh, and if you're not recycling, how come? Maybe there's a few other things you can do, too, like park that enormous truck until you actually need a truck.

Thanks, guys, sorry about the moralizing.
 
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