Biodiesel in machinery?

[newguy]

Does any of you use biodiesel in your forestry machinery? As most of you guys probably do, I have diesel everything and the cost of fuel is crazy!!
I have read manufacturer warnings that biodiesel should not be used over a 5% blend, (5% bio and 95% dino diesel). Is anyone using bio? If so at what mix%? Any loss in power or performance?
I don't see any savings using a 5% blend, but if I can mix at a higher % it may work. This is providing the machines do not have a noticable power loss and will not be damaged.
Bandit 280
Mustang MTL16
Ford F550 powerstroke

 

[redprospector]

There's no where around here to buy bio-diesel, but ever since diesel hit $4.00 a gallon I've been looking into making it. I'm locked into some contract's that this is really making it tough to complete.

Andy

 

[2dogs]

I am firmly against bio diesel! First off biodiesel (bd) is being pushed by the huge lobbying group employed by the soy bean industry. The number 1 goal is to have the government subsidise the entire industry. I would not doubt that within a few unchecked years that ADM patented soy beans will be the only soy accepted for bd. The subsidies are paid by YOU. That means higher taxes so an artificially low price can shown at the pump. Soy is a lousy bd crop, producing low yields compared to European crops but ADM and a few others own the politicians. In addition food crops will be sacrificed for the bd industry. The entire planet should be working to improve crop yield and annual yield, NOT reduce it so we can show lower prices at the pump. Biodiesel has been called a crime against humanity. I agree with that statement.

Obama is in the pocket of the corn to ethanol lobby via Monsanto. Regardless of the fact that ethanol takes more energy to produce than it yields the industry is strong. Why? Because taxpayers subsidise the industry because of the lobbying groups. Again food crops are being replaced with non-food crops.

 

[sILlogger]

it burns quite a bit cleaner..but it will also knock all the sludge loose in your fuel system in your motor...and it will also gel-up (in the cold) at a higher temp than regular diesel..as for performance i don't know of a difference

 

[Gologit]

Does any of you use biodiesel in your forestry machinery? As most of you guys probably do, I have diesel everything and the cost of fuel is crazy!!
I have read manufacturer warnings that biodiesel should not be used over a 5% blend, (5% bio and 95% dino diesel). Is anyone using bio? If so at what mix%? Any loss in power or performance?
I don't see any savings using a 5% blend, but if I can mix at a higher % it may work. This is providing the machines do not have a noticable power loss and will not be damaged.
Bandit 280
Mustang MTL16
Ford F550 powerstroke

I've never used it. Before you try it why not talk to a few diesel mechanics and see what they think of it? They'll be the ones with the hands on experience on how it affects engines.

Also...I have to go along with 2Dogs opinion on biodiesel. I don't like the diesel prices either and, like Redprosector said, it makes it hard to do business at any kind of a reasonable profit. But biodiesel isn't the answer....I wish it was.

 

[tanker]

I haul fuel for a living(at least part of my living as I haul chemicals too)around here in east central Indiana,bio is a big deal.We haul to one city bus company that has used a 20% blend for the last several years and their reduction of engine repairs and to a greater extent,their reduction of exhaust emissions is outstanding.bio is not only made from soybeans but also animal fat and other waste products.As far as destroying food,I farmed all my life until 2001.If the ccorn for ethanol and the soybeans for bio make the farmer more money,more power to him.He had to spend enough years getting for his crops what his dad did 20 years before him $1.35 a bushel for corn and $5.00 a bushel for beans.Also I'll point out that dad and I did'nt take gov. subsidies either.Worked off farm jobs and made do with used equipt.

 

[habanero]

..The number 1 goal is to have the government subsidise the entire industry...

So you'd prefer to subsidize terrorists and idiot little South American dictators instead?

Farmers were getting subsidies long before biofuels were a hot-button topic. I've never agreed with it and never will. But at least by funneling those subsidies through the biofuels industry, we're all getting benefit.

And as to the fuel/food argument, do a search on algae biodiesel. It's still a few years away, but it'll go further than soy biodiesel ever will to reducing our petroleum dependence. I just saw today CNN has finally picked up on it, so it'll probably be on all the news outlets in the next day or two.

Biodiesel probably isn't the end-all, be-all answer to a petroleum diesel replacement. But along with GTL fuels, it's a step in the right direction.

 

[newguy]

Biodiesel

Thanks for the great replies!! I am also against using food for fuel. I should have stated I am pondering making my own from used cooking oil. The technology seems to be out there, I'm just wondering about the effects on equipment unique to our industry. Contacting a good diesel mechanic is a great idea, thanks !

 

[2dogs]

I should say I am not against the concept of a biofuel. American soy and other biodiesel makes no sense though. If you have a source of bio-oil like fryer oil and want to reclaim it, have fun. More later, maybe in the off topic forum.

 

[Frank Boyer]

I took a manufacture level class that covered biodiesel last summer. They showed 8 samples of fuel from local stations and most were contaminated enough to void a warranty claim for injector failure. I won't run it in my truck/tractor.

 

[2dogs]

I took a manufacture level class that covered biodiesel last summer. They showed 8 samples of fuel from local stations and most were contaminated enough to void a warranty claim for injector failure. I won't run it in my truck/tractor.

Uh, how local? Maybe I don't want to know.

 

[Frank Boyer]

Uh, how local? Maybe I don't want to know.

The class was at the Chrysler training center in Pleasanton. The samples were from around the S F Bay area.

 

[hammerlogging]

You should have many fuel filters on hand when you switch over because it will dislodge so much sludge.

Making your own from used oil is the way to go, but start looking around for it to get an idea of availability because a lot is already locked up by commercial producers. Filter filter filter, then it'll be good.

Shouldn't be any problems mechanically. It is known to provide better engine lubrication characteristics too, than conventional diesel.

 

[Cowboy Billy]

As far as soybeans used for bio diesel rather than food crops. It really does not have a impact. As the seed mash is still a high protein animal feed. Two years ago you could get almost as much for the mash per ton and was paid for the soybeans them self.

Of course sunflowers, rape seed and mustard give much better yields of oil than soybeans.

A problem with used cooking oil to make biodiesel is that cleaning fluids get dumped into the tank with the used oil. I know of one set of injectors was wiped out from some cleaning agent that was still in it after being prossed as biodiesel.

Another problem is that the biodiesel can attack rubber fuel lines and injector O rings in older diesels.

You already know that it will clean the tank and plug the fuel filters. Two years ago we were sent 20% bio with out being told. And were lucky to make a weeks on a fuel filter And that was on newer equ that had less than 2000 hrs on it. At one point we had two 345 cat excavators down at one time and a mechinac cursing as he was trying to change them on hot engines. But after three or four weeks we no longer had a problem.

I am looking into converting to running on strait vegetable oil. But haven't got far with it yet.

Their is a lot of good info on it at thedieselstop.com in forms under biodiesel and alternitive fuels. http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f22/

Billy

 

[habanero]

...A problem with used cooking oil to make biodiesel is that cleaning fluids get dumped into the tank with the used oil. I know of one set of injectors was wiped out from some cleaning agent that was still in it after being prossed as biodiesel.

If this was a problem, the biodiesel wasn't processed correctly. Any cleaning agents that can cause harm should be water soluble and go out with the aqueous layer after washing. Back in the day a lot of backyard biodiesel makers didn't wash their product and the problem you describe wasn't unheard of. As long as it's washed properly, though, waste-oil biodiesel is perfectly safe.

Now if you're going to run straight oil, then you have to be more discerning about the oil you're getting.

 

[Cowboy Billy]

If this was a problem, the biodiesel wasn't processed correctly. Any cleaning agents that can cause harm should be water soluble and go out with the aqueous layer after washing. Back in the day a lot of backyard biodiesel makers didn't wash their product and the problem you describe wasn't unheard of. As long as it's washed properly, though, waste-oil biodiesel is perfectly safe.

Now if you're going to run straight oil, then you have to be more discerning about the oil you're getting.

Thanks Habanero. That was from memory of what I looked up two years ago. Looks like this year I will be getting going on my oil project. My cousin is going to let me grow 40 acres of sunflowers on his property. We already have a oil seed press. We have to come up with storage tanks and someone to combine it for us. We are supposed to get 102 gal/acre. Its on my cousins hunting property and the deer will knock down quite a bit. On the other hand deer fattened up on sunflower seeds tastes great!!!

Billy

 

[2dogs]

Thanks Habanero. That was from memory of what I looked up two years ago. Looks like this year I will be getting going on my oil project. My cousin is going to let me grow 40 acres of sunflowers on his property. We already have a oil seed press. We have to come up with storage tanks and someone to combine it for us. We are supposed to get 102 gal/acre. Its on my cousins hunting property and the deer will knock down quite a bit. On the other hand deer fattened up on sunflower seeds tastes great!!!

Billy

Out of the goodness of my heart, or maybe the goodness of my stomach, my son and would be willing to help you with your deer problem. Just let us know.

 

[Gologit]

Out of the goodness of my heart, or maybe the goodness of my stomach, my son and would be willing to help you with your deer problem. Just let us know.

LOL...if you get too much for your freezer just let me know. Out of the goodness of my heart I'd be willing to help out.

Are you going to be able to make it to the PNW GTG?

 

[Cowboy Billy]

Well I hope to have the hunting cabin up by deer season I got stuck working 7-12's through rifle season and I cannot even hit the side of the barn with a bow. Dogone arrow went between the boards and inside of the barn :censored:

But if you find your self in northern michigan it will be deer and beer and guns. Chainsaws make great buck lures too. Draws them right in Funny my Uncles thought I was scaring the deer off cutting cedar. Ha.

Billy

 

[treemandan]

Thanks for the great replies!! I am also against using food for fuel. I should have stated I am pondering making my own from used cooking oil. The technology seems to be out there, I'm just wondering about the effects on equipment unique to our industry. Contacting a good diesel mechanic is a great idea, thanks !

Against food for fuel? I can see how certain politics would bias a person judgement and I don't know much about it myself but; Why not? Anyway we can keep a renewable source renewing is good. Not only that, cooking oil is a food used or not.