Blending 2 stroke oils

[Fish]

Now we are getting into some dang big words here! Maybe you all should start working
on a cure for cancer, or a unified field theory.

 

[bwalker]

I dont know about hydrazine, but I do know that the dispersent found in tcw3 oils is nitrogen based. Whats the chemical makeup of Hydrazine? If hydrazine is indeed toxic I dont see how it could be found in tcw3 oils as one of the main formulation golas of tcw3 was to reduce the levels of heavy metals and toxic elements found in the oil.
I knew a guy of fouled around with hydrazine in two strokes as a power additive. Worked great till the engines went boom.

 

[jimbo1490]

The hydrazines are indeed nitrogenous compounds, very similar in stucture to ammonia.The basic hydrazine spiecies is monomethyl hydrazine (1-methyl hydrazine) with the chemical symbol N2H4. Compare to ammonia with the symbol NH3. Think of Hydrazine as 'super ammonia'. It is an inherently unstable molecule and can begin self-decomposing at the drop of a chemical hat. MMH is used as a one component rocket fuel because it is so unstable AND contains a double bonded pair of nitrogens. Double bonds = more stored energy. All of the hydrazines are very nasty toxic chemicals although it is not clear if any hydrazine in its original form would still be left after burning it in an engine. Two-stroke oils are probably fairly toxic in liquid form due mainly to the additive package. Though the oil itself does not burn during combustion, some of the additives do undergo chemical change including some oxidation or other decomposition. This is likely the intent of adding hydrazine since it is an excellent free radical (ozone) savenger. In so doing it is no longer hydrazine and may actually reduce the toxicity of the exhaust gases.This is why they add it to water boiler fuels; it prevents highly reactive free oxygen from burning up the boiler.

Jimbo

 

[bwalker]

Few things, Jimbo. The oil does indeed burn. Also, if oils contained a toxic compund like hydrazine would it not be found in their MSDS sheets? It isnnt on any of the sheets I looked at. I am not saying your wrong, I am just passing on what I have seen.

 

[jimbo1490]

It may be a question of how much hydrazine is actually in there. To give you an example with which I am personally familiar, what we call epoxy resin is the substance "diglycidyl ether of bisphenol A and epichlorohydrin" or DGEBPA. It is made by reacting the chemicals bisphenol A and epichlorohydrin. This latter is very toxic nasty stuff, actually worse than hydrazine as far as toxicity. But once these two are reacted together to make the resin, only traces of the constituents remain. For this reason, no MSDS for epoxy resin lists epichlorohydrin as a component. They all say epoxy resin 100%, even though it does indeed contain epichlorohydrin in small amounts. Furthermore, epoxy resin is fairly non-toxic and non-allergenic stuff, (not considered a hazmat) despite the fact that the two constituents are toxic, one dangerously so. This could be the case here, though I have not explored whether this is actually so. I'm just showing how this apparent contradiction might be reconciled. Sort of like the antifreeze in your can of soda.

Jimbo

 

[woodshop]

Sort of like the antifreeze in your can of soda.

Jimbo

...OK I give up... tell me about antifreeze in my can of soda?????

 

[jimbo1490]

...OK I give up... tell me about antifreeze in my can of soda?????

Not much to tell, really. It's in there...

Jimbo

 

[Fish]

big-ass words bouncing around here

 

[bwalker]

Yes, proplylene glycol is found in food. So is ethylene glycol I believe.

Jimbo, Can you tell my if hydrazine has any oxygen in its chemical makeup?

 

[Fish]

What about Milwalkees best light?

 

[premix]

Whats the chemical makeup of Hydrazine? If hydrazine is indeed toxic I dont see how it could be found in tcw3 oils as one of the main formulation golas of tcw3 was to reduce the levels of heavy metals and toxic elements found in the oil.

....N2H4. Even the stuff used by NASA was only 97% or higher the remainder is H20. Mostly because it is hydroscopic.

Hydrazines can dissolve in water, where they usually break down into less toxic compounds within a few weeks. Hydrazines may build up in some fish living in contaminated water. Mostly from some poor running 2 stroke boat motors, but do not remain at high levels over long periods of time.

"The oil does indeed burn"

There is not necessarily a 100% burn on 2 stroke oil, kind of depends on jetting (combustion temperature) and the base oil burn temperature. Some synthetics can raise the bar a bunch. This is why we see spooge on some 2 stroke exhausts.

 

[Blowdown1]

hygroscopic

 

[premix]

I stand corrected. My bad.

 

[bwalker]

There is not necessarily a 100% burn on 2 stroke oil, kind of depends on jetting (combustion temperature) and the base oil burn temperature.

Your right as some of the oil is lost out the exhaust and if the engine isnt tuned properly some is partially burnt and expelled as spooge. The fact remains however that the majority of the oil run through a poperly operating motor is combusted and the oil is in fact designed to be combusted.

Some synthetics can raise the bar a bunch. This is why we see spooge on some 2 stroke exhausts

Spooge nine times out of ten is caused by the carbs settings and the load the motor is placed under. Very low load and overly rich jetting will cause oily exhaust everyt ime regardless which oil or ratio one runs. TCw3 oils, castor based, and some of the poorer synthetics will make the oily mess even worse.

 

[Blowdown1]

how did my response end up getting changed to red bold text?

 

[Blowdown1]

duh! I'm an idiot.