jp hallman
ArboristSite Guru
Clear,
For a "Canadian" you're pretty cool...sure you're Canadian?
For a "Canadian" you're pretty cool...sure you're Canadian?
board certified master
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Ax-man
Addicted to ArboristSite
jp hallman said:
Again I will agree to this statement, to be truthful I have learned more hands on and theory on trees on this site than I did in school or from the certification exam, but AS has no creditability in the arbor world. But the sad fact remains that these evil money making "associations " justify their existence by the fact that they are they are the ones supposedly empowered to grant the letters or cedentials that represent how much you know about trees or are suppose to know. One person on their own, no matter how much they apply themselves or how much knowledge they acquire has no "real creditability " in the real world without some form of recognition from another higher authority, other than his own.
Edit:: I butchered the heck out this post, I hope it makes sense, my skills with this computer aren't the greatest
Larry
Last edited:
jp hallman
ArboristSite Guru
Ax-man said:
Yes...yes they do. I can prove it. The man that has "credibility" is the man that has to turn down jobs on a daily basis because he's too busy to take on all of them. This includes the "man" that farms out all of his work to others.
This takes place in every state of our great union, every day. It's true, look at the facts my friend.
Psychodoe
ArboristSite Lurker
Guys,
Has the question been answered yet? I apologize for jumping in this battle but as a CA and someone scheduled to take the BCMA. I would like to add what my opinion on this matter is. I was under the impression that we all were in a teach what we know to carry on the tradition industry. I do think the CA test has become redundant and too easy to obtain. The fact that the ISA made an attempt to improve this is great. The CA test and the BCMA are individual goals that anyone who chooses to sit for them should be proud of. As for there creditability that lies with the consumer not with an organization that does not have the means to enforce the Bi laws. It does act as a good basis for states to mandate an industry they know very little about. As Arborist certified or not we bicker over who has the best equipment, cut each others throat over $100 and argue over who is smarter. We all agree that some guy with no knowledge and a pickup should not take our work. That may be a good indication as to why consumers look for the best price instead of the quality. As far as the question goes both the ISA and the ASCA have the faults. Anyone can set for the CA exam and should pass but it does represent minimal experience. As for ASCA if you can so minimal qualifications you can join and it is confusing as to who is a member and who is registered.
Has the question been answered yet? I apologize for jumping in this battle but as a CA and someone scheduled to take the BCMA. I would like to add what my opinion on this matter is. I was under the impression that we all were in a teach what we know to carry on the tradition industry. I do think the CA test has become redundant and too easy to obtain. The fact that the ISA made an attempt to improve this is great. The CA test and the BCMA are individual goals that anyone who chooses to sit for them should be proud of. As for there creditability that lies with the consumer not with an organization that does not have the means to enforce the Bi laws. It does act as a good basis for states to mandate an industry they know very little about. As Arborist certified or not we bicker over who has the best equipment, cut each others throat over $100 and argue over who is smarter. We all agree that some guy with no knowledge and a pickup should not take our work. That may be a good indication as to why consumers look for the best price instead of the quality. As far as the question goes both the ISA and the ASCA have the faults. Anyone can set for the CA exam and should pass but it does represent minimal experience. As for ASCA if you can so minimal qualifications you can join and it is confusing as to who is a member and who is registered.
Gentlemen. If jmack has not run off in disgust, here is the isa cert link;
http://www.isa-arbor.com/certification/certification.aspx
clearance it seems that you are aware of 2 of these. Sounds like your CUA far exceeds isa's utility cert, and that is great. The application for the rca that jmack asked about is here
http://www.asca-consultants.org/pdf/rca_application.pdf
If jmack wants more details he can post a new thread to avoid this pollution, or pm me.
http://www.isa-arbor.com/certification/certification.aspx
clearance it seems that you are aware of 2 of these. Sounds like your CUA far exceeds isa's utility cert, and that is great. The application for the rca that jmack asked about is here
http://www.asca-consultants.org/pdf/rca_application.pdf
If jmack wants more details he can post a new thread to avoid this pollution, or pm me.
letters
clearance whats up bud anyway, the rcn means registered consulting arborist asca is american society of consulting arborists its a big jump up from certified arborist the board cerified master arborist and its fairly new jclearance said:
wow
no i'm still here, that will teach me to respond to first post i read ! i guess when i said more weight i was thinking along the lines of a registered landscape architect in asla versus the opinion of a landscape designer in apld anyway thanks everybody asca is a big time and money committment and the bcma is something i'm not familiar with yet, thanks everybody for sharing, and yes i,as others will strive for excellencetreeseer said:
xtremetrees
Addicted to ArboristSite
I believe they would call this a pipeline in the military.
I think the BCMA should be age restricted
I think the BCMA should be age restricted
begleytree
H. sapiens moderatus
I think that CA and BCMA should be worth more than they are, but it's a start for an industry rampant with hacks, and uneducated cutters.
Everything has to start somewhere. It's not an education problem, it's a public perception problem imo.
-Ralph
Everything has to start somewhere. It's not an education problem, it's a public perception problem imo.
-Ralph
rich_h
ArboristSite Lurker
Hate to get involved in this mess but here it goes:
The ISA CA certificatin and BCMA mean something different to everyone who has those certs. For me personally the CA certification was the the first chance I had to test my knowledge against other peers in the field. I took the test after exactly 3 years in Arboriculture and I have to say without some serious studying and major attention paid to the areas where I was lacking I would have failed miserably. As it turned out I passed with an 88. At this point I had reached the penultimate certification that our field had to offer and could have easily sat back on my laurels and called it a career. However, for me the studying process and attention paid opened up entire subject matter that I had never thought much on before. Taking the test showed me where I was lacking and made me apply myself even more than before taking the test.
I am very proud of my certification but I certainly take it with a grain of salt. If i were to retake the test now after another 13 years in the field obviously it would be a little easier, but that doesnt mean it was a worthless certification. The fact is it gave me direction and helped shape my overall devotion to this field. But then again , that could just be me.
I think BCMA, Certified Arborist and Tree Worker/Climber specialist are similar in what they are trying to achieve. They are by no means something that you can point to and say " I know it all" but instead are kind of a mileage marker to say what you have seen so far knowledge wise and where you need to go.
The ISA CA certificatin and BCMA mean something different to everyone who has those certs. For me personally the CA certification was the the first chance I had to test my knowledge against other peers in the field. I took the test after exactly 3 years in Arboriculture and I have to say without some serious studying and major attention paid to the areas where I was lacking I would have failed miserably. As it turned out I passed with an 88. At this point I had reached the penultimate certification that our field had to offer and could have easily sat back on my laurels and called it a career. However, for me the studying process and attention paid opened up entire subject matter that I had never thought much on before. Taking the test showed me where I was lacking and made me apply myself even more than before taking the test.
I am very proud of my certification but I certainly take it with a grain of salt. If i were to retake the test now after another 13 years in the field obviously it would be a little easier, but that doesnt mean it was a worthless certification. The fact is it gave me direction and helped shape my overall devotion to this field. But then again , that could just be me.
I think BCMA, Certified Arborist and Tree Worker/Climber specialist are similar in what they are trying to achieve. They are by no means something that you can point to and say " I know it all" but instead are kind of a mileage marker to say what you have seen so far knowledge wise and where you need to go.
jmack, RCA is not that new; been around for years. I went to the ASCA Academy in 1996. In California and the denver area RCA is pretty well-known; elsewhere maybe BCMA is more recognizable because the ISA is bigger.
If you want to prove that you can write reports, go for the RCA. That's all it proves--they do not grade the reports on "arboricultural complexity", though you need to have a lot of ceu's ahead of time to qualify. If you want to prove that you know about tree care and spend a lot le$$, go for the bcma.
xtreme, I think bcma is kinda self-age-restricted; no one without considerable experience could pass (at least the aug 2004 version i took. I've been told it's been made harder since, with all the ?'s that everyone got right thrown out in favor of harder ones).
It's all fun and all worthwhile. I think both were worth the $ and time, because both stretched my brain. Next, the CTW, to stretch the body in new ways and learn some knots!
If you want to prove that you can write reports, go for the RCA. That's all it proves--they do not grade the reports on "arboricultural complexity", though you need to have a lot of ceu's ahead of time to qualify. If you want to prove that you know about tree care and spend a lot le$$, go for the bcma.
xtreme, I think bcma is kinda self-age-restricted; no one without considerable experience could pass (at least the aug 2004 version i took. I've been told it's been made harder since, with all the ?'s that everyone got right thrown out in favor of harder ones).
It's all fun and all worthwhile. I think both were worth the $ and time, because both stretched my brain. Next, the CTW, to stretch the body in new ways and learn some knots!
1996 academy was at Arbor Day Lodge in Nebraska, excellent place to visit if you like trees. Hazelnut orchard, deep woods, wood-fired power, Olympic pool, etc. They have a good variety of workshops there too.
www.arborday.org
2006 Academy was in a cramped hotel near Atlanta's airport.
www.arborday.org
2006 Academy was in a cramped hotel near Atlanta's airport.
Jim Hallman
New Member
Dan's posts piscadeared...well anyway. The certs are what they are. A way for one "certified" group or person to keep track of like folk. Not a way to promote business to the uneducated.
trees4est
ArboristSite Member
Treeseer, I assume you're a member of ASCA? Do you get many referrals from the organization website? I was pleased to learn my BCMA could get me into the ASCA, I'm going to join this year and go for the RCA. A-OK. I'm sorry I missed the academy this year, I don't think they have conferences or meetings in the east very often. The meeting this fall is out west, and the next academy is in Sacramento? I think. Good excuse to head into the Sierras while I'm there, though.
trees4est, non, I don't get much referral from the asca website, and doubt I'll get much more when my rca is in.
are certs a way to pomote business to the general public? yeah, I see that working. Joe Blow takes notice when he sees that a profession is trying to advance. It's not perfect, but it's moving in the right direction.
are certs a way to pomote business to the general public? yeah, I see that working. Joe Blow takes notice when he sees that a profession is trying to advance. It's not perfect, but it's moving in the right direction.
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