husq2100
Addicted to ArboristSite
Bore cutting, when is it used?
any links to video's?
Cheers, Serg
any links to video's?
Cheers, Serg
Bore cutting? (3)
- Thread starter husq2100
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hammerlogging
Addicted to ArboristSite
most generically as an alternative to back cutting. I bet there's lots on here about it if you searched it here or the techniquer forum. Very controlledd felling, helps prevent barber chair- probably really useful for eucalyptus, if you have that.
Bushler
ArboristSite Operative
Bore cutting? I do that mostly for bucking. When falling small timber I will use the tip of the bar to 'bore cut' a face so I don't have to bend over.
Bore cutting to prevent barberchair? Sounds like a good way to lose a saw.
If you do use the tip of the bar to bore be sure you file your riders smoothly slopping back like they come from the factory. Don't just flatten your riders. The saw will kick back hard if you do. Trying to start a bore cut with flattend riders is like using a jack hammer.
Bore cutting to prevent barberchair? Sounds like a good way to lose a saw.
If you do use the tip of the bar to bore be sure you file your riders smoothly slopping back like they come from the factory. Don't just flatten your riders. The saw will kick back hard if you do. Trying to start a bore cut with flattend riders is like using a jack hammer.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
I can count the times I have used a bore on both hands and only a couple
were necessary and that was because a fence or some other object was
in the way. The practice of putting a bar tip into wood is asking for bad
things to happen. Barberchair is not as bad as kickback in terms of death
or injury and can be controlled by other means; a well placed notch and
good backcut with a sharp saw and by backing away from the stump
instead of: standing there waiting:Eye:
were necessary and that was because a fence or some other object was
in the way. The practice of putting a bar tip into wood is asking for bad
things to happen. Barberchair is not as bad as kickback in terms of death
or injury and can be controlled by other means; a well placed notch and
good backcut with a sharp saw and by backing away from the stump
instead of: standing there waiting:Eye:
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Bushler
ArboristSite Operative
I bore all the time when bucking. I been thinking about the use of boring when falling and thought of another common application of that cut. When falling a school marm that is tight, and the marms lean in opposite directions.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
The use of bore cutting has made insurance rates go up as resulting
injuries from kickback. It is not the best alternative and highly overrated
in my opinion. I know it can be done without kickback but the truth is:
the practice ups the chance of serious kickback occurring and that
alone should instill caution in its acceptance.
injuries from kickback. It is not the best alternative and highly overrated
in my opinion. I know it can be done without kickback but the truth is:
the practice ups the chance of serious kickback occurring and that
alone should instill caution in its acceptance.
HandLogger
ArboristSite Operative
It's how many are trained
Serg,
I'm a bit surprised by what I'm reading here because the bore cutting technique is what is taught and practiced by professional GOL instructors in the United States.
After planning out the fall, which includes clearing two 45 degree escape routes ...
** The release cut is made slightly below the bore cut line, and is directed from outside the tree toward the center.
As much as possible, the orientation of the feller/operator is from the good side of the tree (away from the lean of the tree).
The GOL professionals I've watched (in the forest and in competitions) are consistently accurate and, most importantly, this technique gives more escape time than any other method I've seen or used.
NOTE: the proper part of the saw's bar must always be used when performing a bore cut: just behind the nose and on the bottom of the bar. NEVER use the top of the bar when performing a bore cut -- it's not called the "kickback corner" of the guide bar for nothing.
Serg,
I'm a bit surprised by what I'm reading here because the bore cutting technique is what is taught and practiced by professional GOL instructors in the United States.
After planning out the fall, which includes clearing two 45 degree escape routes ...
- A 70 degree or greater directional cut is made (taking care not to bypass into the hinge you're beginning to form)
- A bore cut is made from the "good side" of the tree (this cut defines the back of the hinge wood, and one must leave release wood [aka, strap wood] at the rear of the tree)
- A wedge is inserted into the bore cut (once again, from the good side of the tree)
- Lastly, the release wood is **cut away while keeping a close eye on the gap of the bore cut. As soon as the bore cut gap begins to open, use one of your planned escape routes to leave the falling area!
- A bore cut is made from the "good side" of the tree (this cut defines the back of the hinge wood, and one must leave release wood [aka, strap wood] at the rear of the tree)
- A wedge is inserted into the bore cut (once again, from the good side of the tree)
- Lastly, the release wood is **cut away while keeping a close eye on the gap of the bore cut. As soon as the bore cut gap begins to open, use one of your planned escape routes to leave the falling area!
** The release cut is made slightly below the bore cut line, and is directed from outside the tree toward the center.
As much as possible, the orientation of the feller/operator is from the good side of the tree (away from the lean of the tree).
The GOL professionals I've watched (in the forest and in competitions) are consistently accurate and, most importantly, this technique gives more escape time than any other method I've seen or used.
NOTE: the proper part of the saw's bar must always be used when performing a bore cut: just behind the nose and on the bottom of the bar. NEVER use the top of the bar when performing a bore cut -- it's not called the "kickback corner" of the guide bar for nothing.
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I think I own the technique of boring but I don't use it very often. It is tough to bore with a longer bar, say 32" and longer. Even when face boring a larger tree I at least start the bore with a 25" or shorter bar on a limbing saw. The longer bars are just too long of a lever arm. If I have a long walk to the tree I will only carry one saw that is large enough to do everything I need, usually a 32" or a 36" saw.
The boring cut is good to know. It is another tool in the tool box.
The boring cut is good to know. It is another tool in the tool box.
HandLogger
ArboristSite Operative
Bore cutting with a long bar
Your thoughts on bore cutting with a long bar are well taken, 2dogs.
The bore cut method I described above is generally performed with a 20" bar. Almost all of the professional GOL instructors I've been around -- and competitors for that matter -- use a 20" guide bar.
I realize that this begs the question: What do you do for 20"+ trees?
You simply break each cut (described above) into two parts -- finishing on the good side of the tree. Obviously the release wood cut will not require two parts, but the preceding steps will when felling larger trees.
This probably reads like extra work to some, but the safety this method offers is what it's all about. The pro GOL loggers I've worked with use this method to make a living, so there must be something to it. Perhaps they simply want to increase their chances of making it home after work ...
Quote from my GOL Instructor (a full-time logger): "If you use the proper technique, you shouldn't need a bar longer than 20" to fell most trees."
Your thoughts on bore cutting with a long bar are well taken, 2dogs.
The bore cut method I described above is generally performed with a 20" bar. Almost all of the professional GOL instructors I've been around -- and competitors for that matter -- use a 20" guide bar.
I realize that this begs the question: What do you do for 20"+ trees?
You simply break each cut (described above) into two parts -- finishing on the good side of the tree. Obviously the release wood cut will not require two parts, but the preceding steps will when felling larger trees.
This probably reads like extra work to some, but the safety this method offers is what it's all about. The pro GOL loggers I've worked with use this method to make a living, so there must be something to it. Perhaps they simply want to increase their chances of making it home after work ...
Quote from my GOL Instructor (a full-time logger): "If you use the proper technique, you shouldn't need a bar longer than 20" to fell most trees."
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Nailsbeats
Addicted to ArboristSite
The bore cut is very effective when cutting heavy leaners with the lean.
Face it up, bore in setting your hinge and leaving a good strap on the backside for holding, then trip the holding strap from the backside a little lower than your backcut. This is where it will save a barberchair, especially in cold hardwood where is impossible to keep up with the cut.
I also use it sometimes when pulling a tree with a rope against the lean. You can set it all up and partially cut the strap, then get in your machine or the winch and start to pull, the strap will release and you take it from there. Good technique if you have to do the cutting and the pulling. Just make sure the strap releases and you don't pull the top out of the tree, hook 2/3 up the tree is a good rule of thumb for this, obviously use your judgement if the tree's intergrity is in question.
I am very impressed with the bore cuts safety factor (due to the gained control) and employ it whenever I can. Nice trick to know.
Face it up, bore in setting your hinge and leaving a good strap on the backside for holding, then trip the holding strap from the backside a little lower than your backcut. This is where it will save a barberchair, especially in cold hardwood where is impossible to keep up with the cut.
I also use it sometimes when pulling a tree with a rope against the lean. You can set it all up and partially cut the strap, then get in your machine or the winch and start to pull, the strap will release and you take it from there. Good technique if you have to do the cutting and the pulling. Just make sure the strap releases and you don't pull the top out of the tree, hook 2/3 up the tree is a good rule of thumb for this, obviously use your judgement if the tree's intergrity is in question.
I am very impressed with the bore cuts safety factor (due to the gained control) and employ it whenever I can. Nice trick to know.
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HandLogger
ArboristSite Operative
Excellent information
Yes, Nails, your words do a great job of further clarifying what I was trying to describe.
The bore cut method is very accurate because the control it offers is excellent ... and, once again, you normally get to watch the tree fall from a much safer distance.
It's like all hazardous work practices: the basic rules must always be followed -- every single time!
Yes, Nails, your words do a great job of further clarifying what I was trying to describe.
The bore cut method is very accurate because the control it offers is excellent ... and, once again, you normally get to watch the tree fall from a much safer distance.
It's like all hazardous work practices: the basic rules must always be followed -- every single time!
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goatchin
ArboristSite Operative
Your thoughts on bore cutting with a long bar are well taken, 2dogs.
The bore cut method I described above is generally performed with a 20" bar. Almost all of the professional GOL instructors I've been around -- and competitors for that matter -- use a 20" guide bar.
I realize that this begs the question: What do you do for 20"+ trees?
You simply break each cut (described above) into two parts -- finishing on the good side of the tree. Obviously the release wood cut will not require two parts, but the preceding steps will when felling larger trees.
This probably reads like extra work to some, but the safety this method offers is what it's all about. The pro GOL loggers I've worked with use this method to make a living, so there must be something to it. Perhaps they simply want to increase their chances of making it home after work ...
Quote from my GOL Instructor (a full-time logger): "If you use the proper technique, you shouldn't need a bar longer than 20" to fell most trees."
+1
Bill Lindloff (my GOL instructor) told me bout the same exact quote you posted.
I haven't felled many trees compared to the rest of you guys, so i lack in experience, but i really like the GOL techniques because you are able to release the tree when YOU are READY, have a bit more time to reach your escape route/location, and are able aim the tree quite effectively (im sure you are able to do so w/ the backcut method but im stating from my experiences)
husq2100
Addicted to ArboristSite
thanks all for your replys,
so you know, i have very very little time behind a saw.
in Australia our speed events in racing are 3 cut, hot start. 1st cut is bore down up, 2nd down and 3rd up.
i figured the bore cut must have come from felling or why would they use it in racing.
i think this youtube vid shows it well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVH3ShnhMRA
now i know you said cut the strap just lower than the back cut, but the way this guy does it seems to make sense to me. I'm a carpenter by trade and work with wood and see how it splits etc, i know its not the same stresses as felling a tree but, to me, it looks like angleing the strap cut like that would give good results.
what is boring a face cut?
does it matter whether you use a humboldt or conventional face?
Serg
so you know, i have very very little time behind a saw.
in Australia our speed events in racing are 3 cut, hot start. 1st cut is bore down up, 2nd down and 3rd up.
i figured the bore cut must have come from felling or why would they use it in racing.
i think this youtube vid shows it well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVH3ShnhMRA
now i know you said cut the strap just lower than the back cut, but the way this guy does it seems to make sense to me. I'm a carpenter by trade and work with wood and see how it splits etc, i know its not the same stresses as felling a tree but, to me, it looks like angleing the strap cut like that would give good results.
what is boring a face cut?
does it matter whether you use a humboldt or conventional face?
Serg
I'm with you. I rarely have seen a reason to to that. I have done it, but really didn't have a reason to.
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
Reasons for:
It is a method that reduces the likelihood of a barber chair event.
It does allow for setting the holding wood precisely.
It can give the faller control exactly when a tree will go over.
It can allow for a slightly faster escape.
*******************
Reasons against:
It requires more concentration at the stump and takes away from vertical awareness. (Death from above stuff)
It requires more skill than a standard back-cut and is subject to greater kick-back risk.
It can cause a dead tree to vibrate more and that could dislodge a hazard.
Doesn't work at all in smaller diameters and poorly in medium small diameters.
Often doesn't work on slope when match cuts are needed.
Clearly not appropriate in rotten wood. (Tree set down - not tree set back but both are accompanied by the same expletives.)
{Boring with match cuts has the faller moving back and forth. Longer bars can allow for making all the cuts on the safe side of the tree/snag.}
Doesn't allow the flexibility in different chain sharpening. A West Coast professional logger chain (HUNGRY - flat filed and rakers low) is not well suited for boring. (Generally, a 'safer' slower cutting chain is better for boring. However, that works against efficient cutting when doing other than bore cuts for the experienced faller.)
*******************
Remember: "what is taught and practiced by professional GOL instructors in the United States." isn't decreed by God.
The open face technique being taught on the East Coast and somewhat in the Mid-West is a smaller tree production technique from Scandinavia. Application in one setting does not guarantee the same elsewhere.
--------------
"Clearing two 45 degree escape routes ..." Please do not limit yourself to 45 degree escapes. For instance; if falling a tree either directly up or downhill please evaluate and probably use a 90 degree escape.
----------------
"A 70 degree or greater directional cut is made" A 70+ degree cut is often neither necessary nor will it provide any benefit at all in certain woods. This makes it especially illogical when dealing with hazard trees. Don't place yourself in the danger zone (next to the stump) than necessary.
-------------------
"A bore cut is made from the "good side" of the tree". This fails to deal with matching cuts and the "good side" term is based on weight (tension vs. compression wood). This is misleading. A term like good side should equate with safety. For instance the good side should relate to the safe side, which may not be the tension side.
--------------------
"A wedge is inserted into the bore cut (once again, from the good side of the tree)" That makes sense. Same side you bore from is where the wedge(s) will be placed.
Do try and avoid wedging next to the hinge. Great way to pop holding wood.
----------------------
"The pro GOL loggers I've worked with use this method to make a living, so there must be something to it. Perhaps they simply want to increase their chances of making it home after work”
They don't exist in the PNW for good reason. It's not that bore cutting is without merit. It is more the my way or the highway attitudfe by those that haven't worked in a setting.
The ones making a living here should be listened to, in this steep terrain / larger tree / hazard tree settings.
It is a method that reduces the likelihood of a barber chair event.
It does allow for setting the holding wood precisely.
It can give the faller control exactly when a tree will go over.
It can allow for a slightly faster escape.
*******************
Reasons against:
It requires more concentration at the stump and takes away from vertical awareness. (Death from above stuff)
It requires more skill than a standard back-cut and is subject to greater kick-back risk.
It can cause a dead tree to vibrate more and that could dislodge a hazard.
Doesn't work at all in smaller diameters and poorly in medium small diameters.
Often doesn't work on slope when match cuts are needed.
Clearly not appropriate in rotten wood. (Tree set down - not tree set back but both are accompanied by the same expletives.)
{Boring with match cuts has the faller moving back and forth. Longer bars can allow for making all the cuts on the safe side of the tree/snag.}
Doesn't allow the flexibility in different chain sharpening. A West Coast professional logger chain (HUNGRY - flat filed and rakers low) is not well suited for boring. (Generally, a 'safer' slower cutting chain is better for boring. However, that works against efficient cutting when doing other than bore cuts for the experienced faller.)
*******************
Remember: "what is taught and practiced by professional GOL instructors in the United States." isn't decreed by God.
The open face technique being taught on the East Coast and somewhat in the Mid-West is a smaller tree production technique from Scandinavia. Application in one setting does not guarantee the same elsewhere.
--------------
"Clearing two 45 degree escape routes ..." Please do not limit yourself to 45 degree escapes. For instance; if falling a tree either directly up or downhill please evaluate and probably use a 90 degree escape.
----------------
"A 70 degree or greater directional cut is made" A 70+ degree cut is often neither necessary nor will it provide any benefit at all in certain woods. This makes it especially illogical when dealing with hazard trees. Don't place yourself in the danger zone (next to the stump) than necessary.
-------------------
"A bore cut is made from the "good side" of the tree". This fails to deal with matching cuts and the "good side" term is based on weight (tension vs. compression wood). This is misleading. A term like good side should equate with safety. For instance the good side should relate to the safe side, which may not be the tension side.
--------------------
"A wedge is inserted into the bore cut (once again, from the good side of the tree)" That makes sense. Same side you bore from is where the wedge(s) will be placed.
Do try and avoid wedging next to the hinge. Great way to pop holding wood.
----------------------
"The pro GOL loggers I've worked with use this method to make a living, so there must be something to it. Perhaps they simply want to increase their chances of making it home after work”
They don't exist in the PNW for good reason. It's not that bore cutting is without merit. It is more the my way or the highway attitudfe by those that haven't worked in a setting.
The ones making a living here should be listened to, in this steep terrain / larger tree / hazard tree settings.
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smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
Now having said all that
Figure out what works.
Don't lock into any one school of thought.
Figure out what works.
Don't lock into any one school of thought.
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
Here is an example
If any falling training and certification program one is part of does not require demonstrated proficiency from both sides of the tree. Judge it harshly. (Being able to complete all your cuts from the same side.)
This is not just for work on slope but also for utilizing the safe side. Remember the good side of the tree is the one without hazards above. (I can't believe how stupid they were in using that name for other than safety. Why you'd think they had no background in hazard trees.
Don't place yourself under a hazard.
If any falling training and certification program one is part of does not require demonstrated proficiency from both sides of the tree. Judge it harshly. (Being able to complete all your cuts from the same side.)
This is not just for work on slope but also for utilizing the safe side. Remember the good side of the tree is the one without hazards above. (I can't believe how stupid they were in using that name for other than safety. Why you'd think they had no background in hazard trees.
Don't place yourself under a hazard.
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Job Corps Tree
ArboristSite Operative
what is GOL? Is that the Game of Logging? If it is I had Tim (Ared)? for an Instructor in 97
Nailsbeats
Addicted to ArboristSite
Notice where the tree ended up? In the firewood pile. If he backcut a perfect butt log like that he would have to remove my boot from his A$$. Thats why you trip it lower, then you clean up the butt on the ground.
The other thing you can do is bore it and finnish the back cut by cutting right out the back while still in the bore cut. I do this on trees that don't have a severe lean, it's faster.
You could bore a humbolt or traditional, or open face for that matter. The notch used does not affect the bore cut.
To bore the face, you make your notch (openface), then bore through the apex of the notch out the backside of the tree, leaving straps of wood on each side. Backcut your straps and your in business. This leaves hingewood only on the outside of the tree, lessens fiber pull. One downside is a weaker hinge, less strength against side lean. Kind of a speacialty technique like the tongue and groove. Have to know when to use it.
My personal take on that video was that the guy looked like he was running a saw on the moon. He should consider dropping some of the gear and spending money on a man's saw and some saw skills. He got it done, but looked like it was his first tree, not smooth at all.
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