Bore cutting? (3)

[ropensaddle]

what is GOL? Is that the Game of Logging? If it is I had Tim (Ared)? for an Instructor in 97

I think it is game of luck a bore cut is not needed in my opinion.
I can crush a soda can with out a bore and can escape just fine
and also advantage in back cutting is if it is slightly off you can
correct it as it starts to move. If you are a borer go for it as long
as you are not on my job. I don't want to perform cpr on a bloody
individual.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I do bore cuts on bigger trees on steep slopes with some lean. If performed correctly it is safe, i was taught this by many long time cutters. My girlfriends dad has been bore cutting for 31 years without a kickback incident.

 

[husq2100]

Smokechase II - look at the vid that was a small tree.

Nailsbeats - "Notice where the tree ended up? In the firewood pile. If he backcut a perfect butt log like that he would have to remove my boot from his A$$. Thats why you trip it lower, then you clean up the butt on the ground."

what do you mean by "butt log"

"Notice where the tree ended up? In the firewood pile. If he backcut a perfect butt log like that he would have to remove my boot from his A$$. Thats why you trip it lower, then you clean up the butt on the ground"

do you think it was unsafe, (i thought he did a good job) with the saws i have i would use my 266 or 272xp for that job, what size saw do you think is appropriate for that tree and how would you go about it, with AND without Bore

like i said i have FA experience running saws.

Serg

 

[husq2100]

what is the "open face" technique

Serg

 

[husq2100]

Smokechase II - "A bore cut is made from the "good side" of the tree". This fails to deal with matching cuts and the "good side" term is based on weight (tension vs. compression wood). This is misleading. A term like good side should equate with safety. For instance the good side should relate to the safe side, which may not be the tension side.


when looking at a tree from one side, lets say its leaning to the left, you will make the face cut perpandicular (90 degress to) to the direction of fall. the the bore cut will be parrallel to the face cut, so my way of thinking is that the compression wood is at the face cut and the tension wood is at the back where the strap will be. so i cant see how compression or tension would be on one side or the other? what am i missing???

not taking about boring a face cut, just use the video as an example.

Serg

 

[Nailsbeats]

what is the "open face" technique

Serg

It is a notch that looks like this > angled top and bottom. This allows the hinge to stay intact throughout the fall keeping complete control.

 

[husq2100]

It is a notch that looks like this > angled top and bottom. This allows the hinge to stay intact throughout the fall keeping complete control.

how deep would you go in to the tree, 1/3 etc???

whats the included angle of the face cut?

Serg

 

[Nailsbeats]

Smokechase II - look at the vid that was a small tree.

Nailsbeats - "Notice where the tree ended up? In the firewood pile. If he backcut a perfect butt log like that he would have to remove my boot from his A$$. Thats why you trip it lower, then you clean up the butt on the ground."

what do you mean by "butt log"

"Notice where the tree ended up? In the firewood pile. If he backcut a perfect butt log like that he would have to remove my boot from his A$$. Thats why you trip it lower, then you clean up the butt on the ground"

do you think it was unsafe, (i thought he did a good job) with the saws i have i would use my 266 or 272xp for that job, what size saw do you think is appropriate for that tree and how would you go about it, with AND without Bore

like i said i have FA experience running saws.

Serg (quote)


The Butt log is the bottom, usually most valuable log in a tree.

The saws you have would be great.

Without bore, you just notch it and backcut fast to keep up with the fall, but don't overrun you hinge, never cut that off, that's your control, cut that off and the tree will spin and go with the weight, where it will land no one knows.

How I would go about it doesn't matter, this guy looked like he was hopped up on cocain, the way he would second guess all his saw holds and jived around like he was in the boxing ring, signs of indecision and inexperience. He got it done, but showed inexperience in his ineffecient movement. If I was a bettin man, I would say he was fresh out of some course or college.

 

[Nailsbeats]

how deep would you go in to the tree, 1/3 etc???

whats the included angle of the face cut?

Serg

1/3. The angle of the open face notch should be 90 degrees, so the tree hits the ground and the notch closes at the same time.

It's important to understand that all these specs can vary, because of all the variables. These are just general guidlines that can be tweaked to fit each individual falling situation. Don't get sucked into the "one way" mentality.

 

[husq2100]

well i guess we are looking from oposite ends of the spectrum, me totally new to this and you with what sounds like a lot of experience. in saying that, i think that making his face cut a little deeper with a second cut shows he didnt just go gun ho and over cut everything...... you can cut more out, but you cant put it back

if he is new to cutting, good on him for having a go, with my lack of experience i would be happy to cut like that.

and yes i understand that all in all these are only guide lines that must be applied when all the asspects have been taken into account.

cheers, Serg

 

[2dogs]

I'm most likely using a saw with a 32" or a 36" bar so I can stand back aways from what I'm cutting and so I can fall most trees with one backcut. The longer bar is better for me when it comes to bucking too. I tend to make angled bucking cuts and if I had to buck from each side things would be even worse. On steep ground I am going to work from the uphill side period, no 20" bars there.

I'm also probably going to use a Humboldt with a snipe and hope the tree jumps off the stump aways. I don't want the tree holding to he stump all the way to the ground.

I guess GOL must work because many people use it but I sure don't want tangle with a mess of blowdowns with a 20" bar. To each his own.

 

[ropensaddle]

I do bore cuts on bigger trees on steep slopes with some lean. If performed correctly it is safe, i was taught this by many long time cutters. My girlfriends dad has been bore cutting for 31 years without a kickback incident.

By incident ya mean injury right? I have experienced kickback non
server or resulting in injury in 23 yrs without a bore. Mostly bucking
or cutting in thick brush.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

By incident ya mean injury right? I have experienced kickback non
server or resulting in injury in 23 yrs without a bore. Mostly bucking
or cutting in thick brush.

He told me he can not remember one time he has had kickback from a bore cut, now over 31 years a man forgets way more than he remembers so who knows. But if the bore cut is done right i never feel that kickback is imminent, it is a possibility whenever a chainsaw is in your hand but i don't think because i am bore cutting it will happen.

 

[ropensaddle]

He told me he can not remember one time he has had kickback from a bore cut, now over 31 years a man forgets way more than he remembers so who knows. But if the bore cut is done right i never feel that kickback is imminent, it is a possibility whenever a chainsaw is in your hand but i don't think because i am bore cutting it will happen.

That may be but it ups the odds of it happening and server at that!

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I guess if you don't feel comfortable with it then don't do it. If you are comfortable with it and know when to use it then by all means use it. I for one like having many different methods of felling in my head so that i have the right technique for any situation.

 

[treejunkie13]

If I may add: obviously there is a major difference from West to East Timber fallers, and the species being cut. I am not singling any one out but if I may use that Axemen t.v. show for an example, their whacking techniques (high stumps, fiber pull, and slabbing.)would not last 5 min. here in the Hardwood forests of N.W. PA. One of the most important things all over the world in this business is product, and fiber pull is not an option in nice hardwood log trees, hence the bore cut. I am not getting into the safety aspect, no matter what training an individual has, a Timber Faller has the final word on their safety and what they feel comfy with. So that being said, when quality counts, I bore cut. I can also add that it is vary rare to see a bar longer than 24" in the woods here, we just cut from both sides. Smaller bar equals less weight, cheaper price tag, more power and speed from the power head, oh yeah and less to file.

 

[Bushler]

That makes sense, cutting for quality v. production cutting. The timber I'm cutting is pretty rough, lots of it goes to the chipper anyway. I cut long logs, (42') which leaves plenty for trim for the saw and peeler logs.

On a good day I cut, buck, and limb 5 long logger loads. On a bad day I'll cut 3 loads. That's below average for a good cutter, but then, I'm 60 years old, and cut at a reduced speed from my better days.

I cut approx. 75-100 pieces/day. I usually have 3 saws on my strip with different length bars. The strip I'm cutting now is steep, in excess of 100% ground slope. Hands and knees to climb up, (two steps forward, slide back three), and would be impossible to cut with a 20" bar. Period.

As for pulling stump wood, I stay on the saw and cut the trees off cleanly while they're falling.

Lastly, don't use the Axmen as an example of west coast cutters, they're the lamest bunch of dumb ***** I've watched. I end up throwing stuff at the t.v. when I watch them.

I've been cutting for 40 years.

 

[Nailsbeats]

If I may add: obviously there is a major difference from West to East Timber fallers, and the species being cut. I am not singling any one out but if I may use that Axemen t.v. show for an example, their whacking techniques (high stumps, fiber pull, and slabbing.)would not last 5 min. here in the Hardwood forests of N.W. PA. One of the most important things all over the world in this business is product, and fiber pull is not an option in nice hardwood log trees, hence the bore cut. I am not getting into the safety aspect, no matter what training an individual has, a Timber Faller has the final word on their safety and what they feel comfy with. So that being said, when quality counts, I bore cut. I can also add that it is vary rare to see a bar longer than 24" in the woods here, we just cut from both sides. Smaller bar equals less weight, cheaper price tag, more power and speed from the power head, oh yeah and less to file.

Those are good observations, pretty accurate with my experience too.

 

[smokechase II]

I agree

treejunkie13:

On the boring cuts would have helped that is not a bad idea.
Lower stumps, yes sir.

Those sales were all state run affairs.
Although I'm not a logger I would ask that not all Oregon Cutters be judged by those guys. There has been quit a bit of talk about those "idiots" around the state.

In regards to a short bar.
Not on slope,
Not on a tree with hazards on one side,
Did you notice the release power on the bucks?


More bore cutting will come with time.
Not every tree....

Short bars on hillsides, no that will not happen.
Distance from danger is a great thing.

 

[treemandan]

what is the "open face" technique

Serg

Its a way to make a samitch.
Sorry, its the Lymes acting up. but ever time I hear "open face" I get hungry for pastrami on rye. I apologize again.