Brits talkin about Brit stuff

[Thor's Hammer]

Why should we indeed? How much is it now? Last time I looked it was about £200 per year. Don't know if it's changed, but the whole approval system wasn't much different from ISO9000. It's only to show that you've got a "quality" system in place ie a paperwork system covering quote to job instructions. Getting ISO9000 would be a better achievement.

Talking about councils, one of my contacts, who gives me a lot of work, was saying his department is under more and more pressure to give their gangs first shout on work. Not that they've got the skills or attitude to do a lot of this stuff. He reckons there might come a day when everything has to be put to the council gangs, so no outside contracts and back to the days before Thatcher and CCT. His is not the only council who rig things in their favour. Another contact, in another local authority, is obliged to put a fixed percentage of work he contracts to internal labour, whether their rates are competitive or not (which they're not - 2 men and a chipper, nothing else, £500 / day, and that was last year)

I used to do about 40k per year on highways work alone. then the Direct services gangs were reunited with the council. overnight we lost a all that work to a bunch of tossers who couldent find there arse with both hands. Then when they had a really big roadside cutting job they wanted doing, the knobheads phoned up the nearest Fountains depot, 50 miles away... Oh yes no tenders involved, like I used to do for every job over 500 quid, Fountains just gave them a huge day rate and did the lot.
The other local Authority I work for, have virtually no budget left for treeworks. But they seem to have budget for a 4th, yes 4th Arb Officer.. thats 4 arb officers, with NO budget.
Quite Frankly, I've had a bellyfull of local government.
I'm now setting up my equipment sales business, and looking after my existing small arb client base.

 

[teressa green]

exactly ,Thor ,let the muppets have it ,do what you do best ,council work ,rubbish i say rubbish,"hint of fred elliott",,,,

 

[Buzzlightyear]

I used to do about 40k per year on highways work alone. then the Direct services gangs were reunited with the council. overnight we lost a all that work to a bunch of tossers who couldent find there arse with both hands. Then when they had a really big roadside cutting job they wanted doing, the knobheads phoned up the nearest Fountains depot, 50 miles away... Oh yes no tenders involved, like I used to do for every job over 500 quid, Fountains just gave them a huge day rate and did the lot.
The other local Authority I work for, have virtually no budget left for treeworks. But they seem to have budget for a 4th, yes 4th Arb Officer.. thats 4 arb officers, with NO budget.
Quite Frankly, I've had a bellyfull of local government.
I'm now setting up my equipment sales business, and looking after my existing small arb client base.

Ah The wonderful Fountains Lol; Defense Estates found an awful lot of money to spend on heathland regeneration last winter, they had four or five quality contractors my firm included doing work for them on the same site at the same time, were we asked oh no work went straight to fountains who sub contracted everything to blokes from all over the country. They had at least 6 21 tonne 360's from HE services with demo grabs and toy fowarders running to FIRES no chipping for 4 weeks on Ash Ranges in Hampshire, you could see the fires for twenty miles !!

They cleared about 100ha using chainsaw teams, the price was allegedly over 5,000 a hectare

 

[iain]

TG
i think the point that was being made re the councils, was not completely about who they choose to use themselves, but more of as you intermated re their 'arb officers'
if the councils are seen to be only giving details of arb ass contractors as been fit to carry out any tpo or conservation area works out to the general public etc , then thats what is out of order, wayyyyyyyyyyyy out of order
given the potential for punters to get ripped off then who can blame them, if they look for some kind of accredition for tradesmen
the AA and the ISA are merging so there is not a viable alterative trade body, for the likes of you and i and the guys on this tread to belong to n lets face it our proffesion could do with any positive PR .
+ it may show that a trade body can be more representitive of the industry ,the aa are getting involved in all kinds of government think tank type stuff (just look at the w@height regs) these policys do and will cause us further untold levels of grief and they (AA) do not have the level of members to justify being so high n bloody mighty
imo
still as you say proof is in the pudding and actions bring in the money not talking

 

[Yellow Fox]

Perhaps what tree care professionals across the whole spectrum of tree care, ( as opposed to forestry or tree harvesting), need is an organaisation that represents in the same way as a Trades Union! The current associations only represent their members and don't have much clout. With more than 18,000 people working with trees in some capacity or another you'd think we could move away from the mutual backslapping of the AA etc.and have an organisation which represented tree workers and strove to get its members the respect it deserves!

 

[teressa green]

if i want respect i go get it myself ,am not concerned about the arb assoc ,in my opinion arb assoc membership is overated ,as for a trade union ,what they gonna do for me when a gypo underbids me or steals my gear ,nowt ,thats what ,banding together wont achieve anything except some mega piss ups at the annual meeting,tree men are a solitary,and suspicious breed ,,how many of you tell the full story when speaking to another tree man ,im alright jack ,is the only way to be in blairs dictatorship,

 

[iain]

tg
each to there own, your points are valid
nobody is going to attempt to drag you along its yr life

yes we are very suspicious that is business, the unscupulous teach us to be that way
however it doesn't mean we are always right to be so.

divide and conquer

 

[teressa green]

and the tree workers guild will achieve the sum total of what ,its benefits of membership will be ? who will police the police,its pie in the sky ,your efforts would be better placed constructing a solid reliable ,well thought of business,the people who worry about the new legislation ,work at height regs ,insurance,loler,nptc,tree officers obviously arnt busy enough ,no one sticks to the letter of the law 100.% and in my opinion anyone who does is lying,i shall continue the way i am and your tree guild of happy clappers can do as it undoubtedly will and fall flat on its arse,

 

[Thor's Hammer]

Well..
The mega piss up sounds good!
I feel that what TG says is exactly what it will be. I would love it to be otherwise, but I've been in this game a long time now. Anyone remember all the promises of the UK ISA chapter? now where are they?
In this country we are always going to suffer the bane of massive costs and high overheads, and the strangulation of way to much legislation. I would put Thousands into a TWG that would abolish Loler, Puwer, Risk assesment, method statements, work at height regs, blah blah blah.
but its never going to happen. read TCI mag, and you'll see they have a member in congress that actively fights treeworker legislation. think we'll ever see that?
I dont want to piss on any fires, and i think its very commendable, but what TG says is the reality.

 

[iain]

r well thats it then, back to reality

 

[Thor's Hammer]

if you really want to change things, get everyone to cancell their insurance tomorrow. that will get the underwriters attention really quickly....
its all a scam anyway. in 26 years we've had no claims....

 

[iain]

tom

i'm not on a crusade m8

somethings wind me up mainly when the boffin brigade, try to tell me what when and how to do stuff, i didn't much care for it when i was in the forces,
now i just n do my own thing
i'd luv to see one of the brain boxes get their fat arse 80' up a tree on a rope
then i may take a bit more notice of them
r well the kettle has just boiled so ta ta

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

Oh dear oh dear what a bunch of cynical ,skeptical,misery guts we have on here !!!!..Fu ck me good job you lot weren't about during the peasants revolt or during the 2 world wars, you lot would have given up in an instance !!!

My dear men i don't think you get the point regarding the TWG we are all about an association that simply vets members to see if they have insurance and the quals to carry out the work they do nothing more nothing less!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..and then we promote the TWG to councils ,developers in fact the whole commercial and domestic world !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..WE ARE SAYING THERE ARE CONTRACTORS OUT THERE WHO ARE INSURED AND MORE THAN CAPABLE OF CARRYING OUT VARIOUS CONTRACTS...WHO ARE NOT AA APPROVED

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

Just one other thing wouldn't you skeptics rather belonng to an organization whose commitee members [who ever gets elected ] have actualy worked on the tools ,and haven't simply gone to uni and piss*d around in the tree game for a few years and then joined the AA etc ?????????????????????????????

 

[Thor's Hammer]

Oh dear oh dear what a bunch of cynical ,skeptical,misery guts we have on here !!!!..Fu ck me good job you lot weren't about during the peasants revolt or during the 2 world wars, you lot would have given up in an instance !!!

during the peasants revolt or the world wars, you did'nt need a certificate in scythe wielding, or insurance on your sopwith camel.
you just had to get out there and do it.
At the end of the day, unless you spend Thousands of £ on marketing, the TWG will not get the exposure it needs.
the problem with business in this country is far to much legislation. it is slowly strangleing all small busineses, and no TWG will change that.

 

[Thor's Hammer]

Just one other thing wouldn't you skeptics rather belonng to an organization whose commitee members [who ever gets elected ] have actualy worked on the tools ,and haven't simply gone to uni and piss*d around in the tree game for a few years and then joined the AA etc ?????????????????????????????

I'd have to disagree with you. I know a lot of the 'Old Boys' in the AA, and they all served their time on the tools. My father was still climbing till he was 60. A lot of these guys worked hard to change the image of the 'tree surgeon' with the general public.
What you describe sounds more like most Arb Officers to me

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

Well no ones going to force you to join !!!!..i don't have that much of a problem with legislation to be perfectly honest ,i would say im 90% on top of it all ,i really dont find it much of a problem and i'm only a small 3 man band.


Marketing isn't that much of a problem ,if you know how,you target the people you need to target ,you add a small link to your website ,a mail shot here and there ,you attend relavent and often inexpensive trade shows [CAPEL MANOR FESTIVAL OF TREES ,WOOD FAIRS ,LARGE PLANT SALES ,GARDEN CENTRES etc etc ],you talk to people like yellow fox,a little logo on your trucks with a web address ,a logo and web address on your YP AD no rocket science or mega £££s there THOR

 

[Thor's Hammer]

Hey dont take me the wrong way, I feel its great what your doing. yes, you will get exposure the way you say, but it will take a long time.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

No disrespect to your father THOR but all they did was make a club for the good ole boys...they have done FA for me and others, exexpt belittle me/us week in week out with there silly snippits in HORT WEEK etc ect about there approved contactors scheme ie unless your AA approved your a cowboy

 

[blue]

anyone know of any MEWP hire websites??need a self propelled 12-16' one for a few weeks maybe