John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
tophopper said:
I second the motion
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I second the motion
Brock2saws
ArboristSite Lurker
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VTMechEng said:
I was trained to shuffle/hop to the truck and then leap onto it just last year. It was part of my Electrical Hazard Awareness Program from TCI. They sent a copy the ANSI standards too, but I didn't notice in that ANSI contradicted what TCI was teaching.
I remember recently that the ANSI standards were going to be updated. Have new ANSI standards been published since Sept of 2004? Is this when the policy changed?
I wouldn't be surprised if the TCI materials are inaccurate (or outright dangerous). This same material advocated an unsecured footlock of the tail of an injured climber's system for rescue. But that's another thread altogether.
BAB
dayman
ArboristSite Operative
There are lots of pieces of the TCIA EHAP program that need updating to current trade standards. Those videos were made in 1989. Has anything changed in the trade since then? Unsecured FL was standard then, not now.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
dayman said:
Why did TW have problems there?
I can remember him shaking his head on a number of points I brought up.Rescue method
The training I recived was to keep a clean dry rope unused in a saftey kit, than use that rope to break contact. Also an insulated pole saw may be used to break contact. Once contact has been broken, it would be possible to operate the lower controls, if still operable. When breaking the contact with the energized line, you must be careful not to touch phases. The phase to phase voltage is actually higher than phase to ground. 7.6 phase to ground is 13.2 phase to phase due to three phase power.
If you are unable to break contact it may be possible to operate the bucket with a insulated pole saw or rope to break contact. If any attempt is made to approach the truck, you must always shuffle your feet keeping your feet constaly touching each other to get near the truck. It is hard to tell where the step potential zone may begin. If this is not possible, as a last resort, you could shuffle with feet constaly touching each other up to the truck and then jump on to the truck without touching the ground and the truck at the same time.
All thse techniques take practice and should be evulated prior to use. On a rainy or really muddy day, the rope could become dirty quickly and become conductive. If the bucket truck has stopped running even with battery back-up system or the tires are on fire, it would not make muck sense to get on the truck. Same goes for if you dont have the proper rescue equip. The rescue equip has to be placed out side of the truck in a safe place out of the step potential area of the truck. On wet days the step potential could go for 50 ft or more from the truck. None of these techniques should be tried without practice. Our company practices every month a different situation. Normally takes about 3-4 hours depending on how may times mistakes are made. Time is also important if the victim is alive or has not been shocked badly. Brain damage starts after 4 mins after blood circulation has stopped. Current First aid and CPR training are also requirements
Aerial rescue should be practiced monthly. These techniques are not something I would want to learn under a life or death situation. It is also not worth dying to find out what works.
Also if you are not line clearance trained trimmer you should not go near enough to Electrical conductors to get in to trouble.
Rescuing climbers that have made direct or indirect contact with a conductor is simmilar to the procdures for breaking contact, execpt it may be possible to climb a hot tree without spurs and break contact. The reason not to use spurs on a hot tree is the power could flow in the sap.
These are the rescue techinques I have been taught, but if you have no training with these techinques, it is best not to be hurt or killed and stay back and keep others back to minimize injuries. Unfortunately there may not be a technique that can save the victim and this must also be reconized.
The training I recived was to keep a clean dry rope unused in a saftey kit, than use that rope to break contact. Also an insulated pole saw may be used to break contact. Once contact has been broken, it would be possible to operate the lower controls, if still operable. When breaking the contact with the energized line, you must be careful not to touch phases. The phase to phase voltage is actually higher than phase to ground. 7.6 phase to ground is 13.2 phase to phase due to three phase power.
If you are unable to break contact it may be possible to operate the bucket with a insulated pole saw or rope to break contact. If any attempt is made to approach the truck, you must always shuffle your feet keeping your feet constaly touching each other to get near the truck. It is hard to tell where the step potential zone may begin. If this is not possible, as a last resort, you could shuffle with feet constaly touching each other up to the truck and then jump on to the truck without touching the ground and the truck at the same time.
All thse techniques take practice and should be evulated prior to use. On a rainy or really muddy day, the rope could become dirty quickly and become conductive. If the bucket truck has stopped running even with battery back-up system or the tires are on fire, it would not make muck sense to get on the truck. Same goes for if you dont have the proper rescue equip. The rescue equip has to be placed out side of the truck in a safe place out of the step potential area of the truck. On wet days the step potential could go for 50 ft or more from the truck. None of these techniques should be tried without practice. Our company practices every month a different situation. Normally takes about 3-4 hours depending on how may times mistakes are made. Time is also important if the victim is alive or has not been shocked badly. Brain damage starts after 4 mins after blood circulation has stopped. Current First aid and CPR training are also requirements
Aerial rescue should be practiced monthly. These techniques are not something I would want to learn under a life or death situation. It is also not worth dying to find out what works.
Also if you are not line clearance trained trimmer you should not go near enough to Electrical conductors to get in to trouble.
Rescuing climbers that have made direct or indirect contact with a conductor is simmilar to the procdures for breaking contact, execpt it may be possible to climb a hot tree without spurs and break contact. The reason not to use spurs on a hot tree is the power could flow in the sap.
These are the rescue techinques I have been taught, but if you have no training with these techinques, it is best not to be hurt or killed and stay back and keep others back to minimize injuries. Unfortunately there may not be a technique that can save the victim and this must also be reconized.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
The rope is always hot, the hot tree should never be climbed. Pleese guys, its bad enough to have one dead person, never mind more. You have to keep back the public, for thier own safety and to stop them from "helping". Eric you sound like you have a lot of knowledge about power, don't agree with it all but you make some good points-like if you are not trained to work around power then stay away from it. Do you work for Asplundh?
vharrison2
Member
I agree with clearance
so do I
I also second that the hopping techniques are outdated, and insulated booms are the same as ropes and pole pruners, get them dirty or scratched up and they are nothing but a false sense of security.
I also second that the hopping techniques are outdated, and insulated booms are the same as ropes and pole pruners, get them dirty or scratched up and they are nothing but a false sense of security.
juststumps
ArboristSite Guru
some good idea's here....but
1 if your not trained to work around live wires,,,stay away!!!
2 energized wires are deadly,,, deenergized wires are deadly,,, the only safe wire are ones that are deenergized and grounded!!!!
3 the hop skip jump,, is for getting away from an energized truck,,, not for getting on!!!!!
4 i don't know what you guys use,,,but the pole saw thing won't work on the lower controls.... you need two hands.....one for the controls,, one to enable it....
5 as far as dropping the outriggers....i know i can't move them until the boom is stowed!!!!! but thats on the stuff i use...
number one discharge of duty,, is to work safe!!!!
if in doubt, call the pros!!!!
jd full time HV electrician, part time groundie, stumpgrinder
1 if your not trained to work around live wires,,,stay away!!!
2 energized wires are deadly,,, deenergized wires are deadly,,, the only safe wire are ones that are deenergized and grounded!!!!
3 the hop skip jump,, is for getting away from an energized truck,,, not for getting on!!!!!
4 i don't know what you guys use,,,but the pole saw thing won't work on the lower controls.... you need two hands.....one for the controls,, one to enable it....
5 as far as dropping the outriggers....i know i can't move them until the boom is stowed!!!!! but thats on the stuff i use...
number one discharge of duty,, is to work safe!!!!
if in doubt, call the pros!!!!
jd full time HV electrician, part time groundie, stumpgrinder
Hello,
look here http://www.big-boys.com/articles/boompower.html
I would definitely stay away.
Christian
look here http://www.big-boys.com/articles/boompower.html
I would definitely stay away.
Christian
