Bucking Alder Blowdown

[slowp]

I'm having trouble with alder. I know enough from cutting the small stuff that it tends to split and is dangerous. Today, there was a 7" alder down in the roadway. Looked carefully at it and figured the side of it was where the tension was, it was bent that way (bend facing down the road). So, I figured to cut it top first then bottom as that would be the "sides". I read it wrong and touched the top and wham, it split. I was glad once again to be standing as far away as I could, and I'm on pins and needles when dealing with alder and ready to jump back. Now, I'm really getting worried and am wondering about wrapping any future ones with a chain on both sides of the cut because of the tendency to split. I was told that the secret of bent standing alder is to bore into it from the sides (prevent barberchairing) but what about the blowdown? Between that and the slipping on the outsloped roads, I'm adrenalined out tonight. opcorn:

 

[palogger]

never dealt with it around here but a chain and binder may work, we use that alot when cutting veneer grade cherry, never done it on blow down but it seems to work well when felling, we chainn the forks and the butt

 

[joesawer]

Be careful. Those spring poles have hurt me pretty bad.

 

[slowp]

Be careful. Those spring poles have hurt me pretty bad.

I know, I took a really long look at the thing. I'd much rather deal with hemlock and fir. Cut a similar alder but stood behind a standing tree while cutting. The only thing worse is spring loaded vine maple.

 

[joesawer]

It is hard for me to explain how to safely do something as dangerous highly tensioned wood.
One trick is to avoid cutting it in the middle of the bow. Cut it close to the end and position your body out of line with the long tensioned piece. Be careful of that long spring piece as it can and will release a lot of energy.
I had one throw a 395 into me running wide open. The chain break stopped the chain, but the bar hit my head and the locked chain cut some pretty curly cues out of my temple, the dogs stuck into my left shoulder joint. The saw bounced off of me and landed about 15' away. It took a good year for my shoulder to get well.

 

[clearance]

Blowdown is always nasty to cut, loaded up, with often hard to read binds. Alder isn't the worst wood, but its no fun either. Its good to take a real long look at the mess, before you fire up the saw. Try and figure out what will happen when the tension is released, what is going where.

Can the log you are cutting 'chair?
Can it drop and slide once cut?
Is a loose chunk going to be flung at you?
Will rocks or stumps become dislodged?

These are just some factors to consider. I know its "wrong" but when I do it,
I often one hand the saw. I usually make an undercut (on top or below
depends on the bind), then I start the final cut, turning my body away as I cut with one hand. It really helps to have wrap handles, big dogs, and a long enough bar for this, those in the PNW know this already, just saying. Take your time and work safe SlowP.

 

[Spotted Owl]

Short of a devine intervention there is no good way. Alder just has alot of pent up energy, no two ways about it.

With the blow down situation you have added a huge deal more to what was already there. What I do, first and foremost stay out of the known bite and uphill. Then start at the top and chunk your way down. Like you said if you can, keep a barrier of some sort between you and the tree. Get down low and look, many times I have see stuff not noticed before by getting onto my hands and knees just to have a different look see. You are the boss of yourself, I have been fired for refusing to cut a chunk of wood and that was an ALDER. If you can chain it up and drag it with your truck as far as possible. That may change the stress points or if you are really luck it may even pull enough to clear the road. Or push your truck into it and relieve some pressure that way. If you have to try small test cuts, I know it doesn't take much for a full on explosion. Try cutting several small cuts in an area to try and relieve some of the pressure.

Alder, anytime anyway scares the beejeebers outta me. Maybe thats why it seems addicting though. It is probably my favorite to cut next to big fir. It will always keep you on your game and your melon screwed on tight, cause if you not, your not gonna be in the game awhole lot longer.

What ever you do do it so you will be home to work on the Money Pit every nigh and weekend. Keep your riggin straight and you lid on tight. Listen to your gut, if it tells to walk away do it. Some one else will cut it out of the way or it will be there when you come back. Don't forget that your saw is not the only tool you have on hand, ropes, chains, vehicles, you name it any and everything can be employed should you need it. If close enough ask for help, more than once we have ran the cat, skidder, crummy, shovel, heck we ran a stroker down one time to help a fella.

Besides your just a girl, think how macho those burly loggers would feel if'in you came back to ask for help. Boy I can see it now, would that ever be a rooster show, all puffed up to help the little missy.

Above all be carefull, and use caution. We would like to get a photo in the calendar we're gonna make at the PNW get together .


Owl

 

[Sprig]

It is hard for me to explain how to safely do something as dangerous highly tensioned wood.
One trick is to avoid cutting it in the middle of the bow. Cut it close to the end and position your body out of line with the long tensioned piece. Be careful of that long spring piece as it can and will release a lot of energy.
I had one throw a 395 into me running wide open. The chain break stopped the chain, but the bar hit my head and the locked chain cut some pretty curly cues out of my temple, the dogs stuck into my left shoulder joint. The saw bounced off of me and landed about 15' away. It took a good year for my shoulder to get well.

Ow! Man that sucks.
Slowp, Joe is right about not cutting in the 'bow', I've cut up a few blowdowns that were dicey enough to tie off just above my cut in the opposite direction of where your standing, this is cutting at/near the stump btw with indeterminate pressures from the compressed limbs. I always made sure the stump was on my right btw if you understand what I mean. Loaded limbs can be a killer for sure so some good planning and for-sight is in order, a couple of short lengths of 1" weldedlink chain for a couple of wraps is a handy thing to have in the arsenal when dealing with those too if you're unsure of what is going to happen, you can rarely be too safe as it only takes once ta mess up a day. To add, I've scared myself a time or two limbing in piles, and have changed my stratagy about that too, like if I am unsure of a large hidden branch I'll leave it till last and maybe roll the log with a PV to be sure there are no surprises, I hate surprises (well most)
I've never had to deal with maples in this respect but from yours and other cautionary notes I will take heed if having to do so, thanks. I guess the way I think of it is that if the tree has hit the ground and the branches it is resting on haven't snapped then there is a sign of extra care to be taken, even a little branch can become a nice spear in the right conditions, bet lots of folks have seen this. Take nothing forgranted, it is an everchanging landscape. Blathered enough me thinks.
Just my small input on this for the evening, work safe and play hard All!



Serge

PS edit, to above post by SpottedOwl, excellent man!

 

[slowp]

Thanks guys. I do get a dreadful feeling when I see that it is alder in the road. Hmmmm, go from the top down. I wondered about that.
There aren't many loggers out right now, and the guy I was hoping to run into I missed by a few minutes. He was once one of the best fallers in this area. I'll continue to be antsy, I'm known for being jumpy around equipment and falling trees. I think it is a good thing to be even though it causes laughter and teasing. Especially around hooktenders with saws!

 

[Sprig]

Thanks guys. I do get a dreadful feeling when I see that it is alder in the road. Hmmmm, go from the top down. I wondered about that.
There aren't many loggers out right now, and the guy I was hoping to run into I missed by a few minutes. He was once one of the best fallers in this area. I'll continue to be antsy, I'm known for being jumpy around equipment and falling trees. I think it is a good thing to be even though it causes laughter and teasing. Especially around hooktenders with saws!

Ignore the laughter and teasing, real men/women help eachother.

And yes, top-down cutting is good as you can release tensions gradually and most pent-up energy can be released away from you. jmho.

 

[joesawer]

Thanks guys. I do get a dreadful feeling when I see that it is alder in the road. Hmmmm, go from the top down. I wondered about that.
There aren't many loggers out right now, and the guy I was hoping to run into I missed by a few minutes. He was once one of the best fallers in this area. I'll continue to be antsy, I'm known for being jumpy around equipment and falling trees. I think it is a good thing to be even though it causes laughter and teasing. Especially around hooktenders with saws!

You know, some loggers are not the sharpest pencil in the box. One of the things that irratates me the most, is someone who will not stay a safe distance from falling trees or equipment.
I am pretty catious around things that can smash my guts out.
And hook tenders with saws, unless they are bumping knots, stay far away.

 

[oldirty]

This is a good thread.

Any pics of these situations for the fans at home?

 

[clearance]

I'm known for being jumpy around equipment and falling trees. I think it is a good thing to be even though it causes laughter and teasing. Especially around hooktenders with saws!

Nothing wrong with that, it could save your life. We had a young fellow at work who constantly had his hands in his pockets, we ragged on him. "Jason, what are you doing with your hands in your pockets, do something, look alive" "what if someone comes up and smacks you in the head, whatcha gonna do with your hands in your pockets"

 

[Gologit]

Thanks guys. I'll continue to be antsy, I'm known for being jumpy around equipment and falling trees. I think it is a good thing to be even though it causes laughter and teasing.

Let'em laugh, let 'em tease....and scroom. The only thing that counts is going home in one piece every day. People who never get startled probably aren't paying attention.

 

[slowp]

No pictures because it was Monday and I forgot to throw the camera in the pack. There'd only be an "after" picture anyhow. Not a problem being laughed at because I've had occasion to laugh back, like at the hooktender being made to say words starting with S by his boss--the hooktender had lost his two false front teeth and was lisping. Hooktenders with and without saws caused several near heart attacks this year. I rate them close to cutting alder on the "watch out" scale.

 

[smokechase II]

Maybe not silly

This is gonna sound silly but taking photographs requires some focus and don't do anything to take away from your concentration.
Just having another person taking photographs causes problems. You have to worry about how dumb they are.

7" is actually a hard diameter to work with. Not big enough to do a center bore, scary to be doing side cuts on but with plenty of power. Most loggers die from diameters in this range and not the big macho stuff. Most loggers really fear spring loaded trees about as much as anything out there.

==================

I haven't ever done this on this sized tree/species, so I'll put this out as a thought subject to correction.

A small 1 inch face but no bigger because of small diameter and pinching of bar,
Bore in from right angle, exact center of tree but stay at least 1.5 inches from any face,
Release not from rear, but going out the back. This to reduce the saw from being 'tossed' by the quickly springing free cut. Angle your back-cut 'down', that is to again to reduce the cut from grabbing and moving your saw.

This school of thought is stop the chair by boring most of back-cut.
Again, this 7" diameter makes this pretty touchy.

===================


Trivia, most loggers would smash the thing down with a real tree that they were going to drop anyway. If this hammer is big enough, no sweat. If you create a bigger problem with more forces from a teepee effect, don't mention my name at the inquest.

 

[slowp]

Alder of the Day

Here's pictures of an alder. Less scary because it broke off. A little bind, on the side facing the camera. Still, I heeded the advice, and climbed up on the snowbank to start cutting where it was small. It moved a little bit like I figured. No popping today.
http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62356&stc=1&d=1199841451

Twinkle cut it up no problems and I tossed the pieces on top of the snowbank.
It is a very wide snowbank...I think the road is about to be shut down if there is not enough money to hire a cat to push the snow over. This is not logger plowed. Anyway, behind this piece is a scarier one with bind in it. It is being held by the snow so I'm letting nature take care of it. No adrenaline left. after yesterday's excitement.
http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62357&d=1199841436

Here's a picture of the broken off trees. It shows how alder is prone to split. It is a soft wood.

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62358&d=1199841474

Red Alder is an "early seral" species that likes to grow in open places, so it likes to grow along roads. It isn't very strong and is a pain to clean up after a snow. I like to burn it in the stove. The market was pretty good for straight logs, not sure if it still is. That's all for now.

 

[hammerlogging]

All ya'll seem so nice.

Where I cut, Appalacian mountain hardwood timber, hickory'll kill you the way it'll hold tension, you could wrap a 7" stem like spaghetti before it broke, but poplar is the one that really pops when its under tension- like what you said, just touched it with the saw and POW.

Well, when I've got one that really makes me scratch my head and enter the limbing scene with caution, I do like these others have been saying- relieve the tension bit by bit, let the tree get a little roll this way and that as I work out the limbs and relieve tension, cut a little here and a little there, before you know it its no big deal.. I like what was said about going hard corp- thats right, full on. But, as I hope everyone here agrees, theres always stuff to walk away from. I've left stuff that others ended up cutting, and I've cut stuff nobody else would do, but thats part of step one, evaluating your own self and state of mind at the time. Yes, tough size to work with. Big timber I'm all about the center bore tongue and groove, but its isn't going to move like the small stuff will

Looks like its all taken care of so be it. Congratulations.