Bucking Large Deadfall - Need Tips

[MtnHermit]

This was the last and largest of the trail deadfall I needed to remove at an elevation of 11,800-feet. As you can see from the third photo I succeeded but I was in constant fear of binding the B&C. I'm hoping someone would critique my process and offer tips how I could have done it better, given a chainsaw with a 20" bar. My estimate of the diameter for my first cut was 26". All photos were taken from the high side of the tree.

• I started at the low side/bottom and did a top cut about half-way into the log until the saw jumped about 3/4 of the way down. I hadn't noticed the vertical split in the log
• Then went to the high side and did a top cut down about 1/4 diameter
• Set my wedge into the top
• Bored into the tree below the split and continued down and out
• I could see daylight through all the cuts except in the middle
• Went to the top and removed top limbs and cleaned the ground for good footing
• Made a vertical cut, ~1/3 diameter, of the low side from the top while standing at the high side, this cut was ~6" below the support log barely visible in the second photo
• Did a top cut half way down
• Set my wedge into the top
• Cut down and through the log, it dropped ~2", apparently supported by one of the limbs
• Went back to the bottom cut, set the wedge, cut through the middle resulting in the second photo
• Used a 3' dia log to pry the cut log out of the bind

The two photos were taken 45-minutes apart, felt like 2-hours.

A third photo, may help.

Please share your suggestions/knowledge.

 

[Johndirt82]

Looks like you got the job done to me! When in that type of situation I always keep a couple good wedges around and an axe. I usually cut the top first bout 1/3-1/2 the way through. Then Under cut it . Be careful though if a dead fall has a rootball it can stand up on you and/or the log on the uphill side could slide back down toward you when the sections come apart. You did good though. Practice is usually a good teacher and you will refine you techniques as situations present themselves.

 

[zxcvbob]

Carrying an extra bar and chain with you is good insurance against that "constant fear of binding the B&C", and is a lot lighter than a whole 2nd saw. Were you trying to save the log? If not, it *might* have been easier to cut into sections starting at the top. It's pretty big though, so that would be a lot of extra cutting.

Looks to me like you got 'r done.

 

[Gologit]

Okay, I guess this is the part where we all pat you on the head and tell you what a fine job you did. And, actually, it wasn't all that bad. It wasn't all that good either, but you're still green and we take that into consideration. We'll skip the head patting part if you don't mind.

But, you asked for a critique.

Why didn't you notice the vertical split? It's easy to see in your pictures so I'm going to assume you could see it with your eyes as well. You hit that split and your saw did something you didn't expect...that's mostly inexperience but it could have been an unpleasant lesson if you'd gotten hung up or if the saw had kicked back. As you gain more experience you'll learn to look for things like that split. You'd better.

Limb the log and check for good footing before you start to cut.

And why all the running back and forth from one cut to another? Just because we gave you several different options on how to cut that tree doesn't mean that you had to use every damn one of them. Or were you just trying different techniques to see which ones worked the best? When you're bucking anything you want to use the minimum number of cuts necessary to get the job done. Running back and forth like a monkey trying to f### a football is counter productive.
Making several different incomplete bucking cuts along the length of a log is often referred to as "crippling it up" and is usually only done on steep ground. And by people with some experience who've seen what can happen if two or more cuts let go at once.

How did you get the log out of the trail?

But...you didn't cut your leg off, or get smushed under the log, or have to leave your saw stuck in the cut, and the trail is open...so I guess we'll have to rate your little debut as a success. Of sorts.

One other question though...why can't the hikers just step over the damn log? Or walk around it?

 

[paccity]

thank's for bein nice bob.:msp_biggrin:

 

[MtnHermit]

Okay, I guess this is the part where we all pat you on the head and tell you what a fine job you did. And, actually, it wasn't all that bad. It wasn't all that good either, but you're still green and we take that into consideration. We'll skip the head patting part if you don't mind.

But, you asked for a critique.

I truly appreciate your critique and I'm not looking for a pat on the head. However, I do not understand why the angry tone? I would think you would want to encourage novices like myself to ask questions and learn chainsaw skills. I've had probably 40-hours running a chainsaw in my entire life, mostly firewood fifty feet from my pickup. Looking at your post count, I'd guess you are a professional logger with 1000's if not 10's of thousands of hours of experience.

Why didn't you notice the vertical split?

I was so overwhelmed by the size of the tree that it never caught my eye. My initial feelings were "you're out of your league" But I'd worked my way up the trail, cutting as I went, and this was the last deadfall. Call me stubborn.

Limb the log and check for good footing before you start to cut.

I did at the bottom cut, I still hadn't figured out where the second cut would happen. The bottom cut was defined by the trail. The second was well above the trail but because it was supported it appeared the safest.

And why all the running back and forth from one cut to another? Just because we gave you several different options on how to cut that tree doesn't mean that you had to use every damn one of them. Or were you just trying different techniques to see which ones worked the best? When you're bucking anything you want to use the minimum number of cuts necessary to get the job done. Running back and forth like a monkey trying to f### a football is counter productive.
Making several different incomplete bucking cuts along the length of a log is often referred to as "crippling it up" and is usually only done on steep ground. And by people with some experience who've seen what can happen if two or more cuts let go at once.

Interesting metaphor.
Basically I was figuring it out as I went. I tried in an earlier thread to get explicit instructions, all I got was gear suggestions. If I'd carried all that gear I wouldn't have gotten 100-feet past the trailhead. I've come to learn on this forum that no matter how explicit the question, it will always turn back to more gear. You did not have a single gear suggestion, thank you.

How did you get the log out of the trail?

Didn't totally, cut that log in half and rolled it to the side, the other half is still there, like this:

Now that is easy to walk around. I was so tired I no longer cared.

One other question though...why can't the hikers just step over the damn log? Or walk around it?

Well unless you're Paul Bunyan with a 46+" inseam and have no balls, I'll suggest even for you to step over that tree would be a feat. Yes going around this one was quite easy, but I've come to learn the go-arounds have go-arounds until the trail ceases to exist.

Perhaps you'd do me the courtesy of using my before photo and tell me how you'd attack that tree, paying particular attention to cut angles, I used mostly perpendicular cuts, perhaps not the best choice. Oh, 455 w/20" B&C and one wedge. Use your "to the woodshed" or a professional style as you deem best.

Thanks for the detailed reply.

 

[AT sawyer]

The camera angle makes it look like you made straight cuts, though the plug didn't bind. I'd have made more of a compound cut (within the limits of your short bar) to the off side to insure that the plug didn't stick. I'd also have put a couple log skids under it first to make it easier to roll off the trail.

 

[lfnh]

Well, the fact that you made it back, does say something good.
Saw didn't get in a bind and the section didn't roll and trap you.

As for the last piece left, that's the part where being dogged tired is when mistakes happen.
However, that walk around piece in the trail, is a pain in the ass when leading a pack train by it.
When you've got a bunch of knuckleheads tail tied on the way though in the mud or snow wrecks happen quickly. Even on good days.

Probly the comments about top/bottom bind and lay of the tree make more sense now and you'll go back and re-read them.

Oh, and foot packing in and working at 12,000 is something of a fond memory now.
Best I'd think about now is packing a flyrod.

 

[hammerlogging]

However, I do not understand why the angry tone? I'd guess you are a professional logger with 1000's if not 10's of thousands of hours of experience. .

Tough love is better than no love at all.

I'd go with 10s of thousands, for sure, even I have thousands and thousands, #### there's 2000 regular ones available per year.

The metaphor, yeah, interesting. Never heard it before, but, it works, works well. Good imagery.

 

[RandyMac]

Bob is a good feller.

 

[hammerlogging]

Bob is a good feller.

Now thats what I call stirring the pot.

 

[RandyMac]

Now thats what I call stirring the pot.

I'm here to serve.

 

[Gologit]

I tried in an earlier thread to get explicit instructions, all I got was gear suggestions. If I'd carried all that gear I wouldn't have gotten 100-feet past the trailhead. I've come to learn on this forum that no matter how explicit the question, it will always turn back to more gear. You did not have a single gear suggestion, thank you.

This is an earlier thread that you started. You received a lot of good advice there. You need to read it again. A lot of very knowledgeable people have tried to help you.


http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/178776.htm


And, for whatever it's worth...my tone wasn't angry. It was very direct. If I had been angry you would have noticed. Immediately. I have neither the time nor the inclination to worry about your feelings.

Your tone often comes across as arrogant and condescending. You've probably been told that before. When you ask advice and advice is given and you don't agree with it you'd best learn to just S T F U. When you know more about what you're doing you'll have the basis for an argument if you don't like the advice.

 

[Gologit]

Now thats what I call stirring the pot.

Hey, everybody should do what they do best. No?

 

[lfnh]

This is an earlier thread that you started. You received a lot of good advice there. You need to read it again. A lot of very knowledgeable people have tried to help you.


http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/178776.htm


And, for whatever it's worth...my tone wasn't angry. It was very direct. If I had been angry you would have noticed. Immediately. I have neither the time nor the inclination to worry about your feelings.

Your tone often comes across as arrogant and condescending. You've probably been told that before. When you ask advice and advice is given and you don't agree with it you'd best learn to just S T F U. When you know more about what you're doing you'll have the basis for an argument if you don't like the advice.

Discussion.

No dictionaries, please...

 

[MtnHermit]

Well, the fact that you made it back, does say something good.
Saw didn't get in a bind and the section didn't roll and trap you.

As for the last piece left, that's the part where being dogged tired is when mistakes happen.
However, that walk around piece in the trail, is a pain in the ass when leading a pack train by it.
When you've got a bunch of knuckleheads tail tied on the way though in the mud or snow wrecks happen quickly. Even on good days.

Probly the comments about top/bottom bind and lay of the tree make more sense now and you'll go back and re-read them.

Oh, and foot packing in and working at 12,000 is something of a fond memory now.
Best I'd think about now is packing a flyrod.

Turns out that trail is/has never been used. I was upset that the FS would spend 10's-100's thousands of tax dollars for a world class trail that is hidden from view/use. That fact is the reason for this whole series of posts with the final thread tomorrow.

Your link to the BC Fallers guide was a major asset, I had printed several pages and had a copy in my day-pack which I referred to before starting. Even so, I still feel I was lucky not to bind the B&C. I had the chain tool and was prepared to abandon the B&C if I had to.

I expect I'll hike up the trail before winter and perhaps with fresh arms and legs I can muscle that last log off the trail.

Thanks

 

[MtnHermit]

The camera angle makes it look like you made straight cuts, though the plug didn't bind. I'd have made more of a compound cut (within the limits of your short bar) to the off side to insure that the plug didn't stick. I'd also have put a couple log skids under it first to make it easier to roll off the trail.

I suspect you have the answer I'm seeking but many of the terms are foreign to me. Is their any way using one of my photos to explain?

Thanks for the post.

 

[madhatte]

Bob is a good feller.

Oh, now you just HAD to... yeah, I guess you did. Carry on, smartly.

Back on topic: I wish I had the time and mobility to just show everybody who needs to know, what I know. I don't. Mtnhermit, yer doin' OK for a non-professional, but you really do need to work on your manners. We're all here because we want to be. Don't make us not want to be. That said, I still feel that you would be well-served by a peavey. If you can pack a saw and fuel in, a peavey really isn't that much more weight. Compromises you could make would be smaller saw/bar/chain and appropriate instruction. You really can cut any size wood with any saw; the question is, how much work? Part of the answer is "gear", but the larger part is "technique".

 

[Gologit]

Oh, now you just HAD to... yeah, I guess you did. Carry on, smartly.

LOL...He could have come up with a better pun but right now his attention is focused on creating a Mac-yellow Ranchero.

 

[RandyMac]

I'm pickin' on Hammer or Metals next.