I reckon engineering just works differently in the milkyway.
Building a log splitter
- Thread starter Nodak Andy
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I reckon engineering just works differently in the milkyway.
firmwood
ArboristSite Operative
I don't understand your statement.
I explained how it was damaged, I feel as though in very good detail. And also touched base on how a cylinder has center support upon half extension.
4seasons
ArboristSite Guru
Log splitter cylinder size (along with pressure) gives you tonnage. Given that most splitters run around 2500psi max a 2.75in bore gives you a little more than 7 tons of force. 3 in only gets you to 9 tons. 3.5 in gets you to 12 tons. Most people start around 4 in to get 16 tons. Of course as you go up in force you need a stronger beam. Some of the leverage on the beam can be limited by keeping the wedge and push foot short.
A large part of how much force you need has to do with your wood supply. Someone splitting straight pine doesn't need much force. But of your wood is lots of white oak crotches you need a lot more force. Also if you split twisted grain wood with a tall wedge you will be much more likely to twist the beam. Also the wedge thickness and sharpness can affect how much force you need. A four way wedge also takes a good bit more force to push.
A large part of how much force you need has to do with your wood supply. Someone splitting straight pine doesn't need much force. But of your wood is lots of white oak crotches you need a lot more force. Also if you split twisted grain wood with a tall wedge you will be much more likely to twist the beam. Also the wedge thickness and sharpness can affect how much force you need. A four way wedge also takes a good bit more force to push.
I can't help you with what you believe happened......but, any reputable cylinder manufacturer certainly understands how to design with adequate strength for the column loads at full rated pressure. If you failed to adhere to rated pressure or had such a flimsy structure that the cylinder wasn't supported then I guess a failure such as you describe could occur.
My advice..rent, borrow or use as many different splitters as you can over the next 6 months. (Volunteer to Help a buddy who has one for an afternoon - he won’t complain) and get a sense for what you like and don’t. Then shamelessly copy the best parts of the ones you prefer. Tape measures and cameras make it easy. This wheel has been invented many times.
Some folks think bigger is better (7” cylinders) and build a giant splitter can slice 40” elm crosswise. Others want speed so put 28gpm on a 3” cylinder. Figure out what suits you. Everything is a compromise - make the best for your needs.
You also need to decide between horizontal and vertical, and if horizontal if you want wedge on beam or cylinder
My splitter is 13hp, 16gpm, 4” and splits 90% of what we toss in it 4way. The rest we split 2x and then whittle down. It will out work 3 of us. Loader, operator and pilit . It is self centering so the loader literally tosses the round into the chamber then goes for the next. Operator splits and Pilit catches the splits and piles.
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Some folks think bigger is better (7” cylinders) and build a giant splitter can slice 40” elm crosswise. Others want speed so put 28gpm on a 3” cylinder. Figure out what suits you. Everything is a compromise - make the best for your needs.
You also need to decide between horizontal and vertical, and if horizontal if you want wedge on beam or cylinder
My splitter is 13hp, 16gpm, 4” and splits 90% of what we toss in it 4way. The rest we split 2x and then whittle down. It will out work 3 of us. Loader, operator and pilit . It is self centering so the loader literally tosses the round into the chamber then goes for the next. Operator splits and Pilit catches the splits and piles.
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You won’t be able to put 16gpm through an ATV rad, not even with pressure behind it. On the suction line you will starve the pump into failure
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For most part never had an issue with any thing getting too hot. However while working quite a load of Oak the whole system got too hot during a summer workout. So on my next build I decided that some changes were needed. I had some heavy wall tubing so I welded them together parallel with a plug near the top. I built a manifold to house two large capacity filters for the intake. The tubing only gets warm now, but has not been used during the hottest days. Any large size tubing will act like a radiator with a very large flow capacity. Thanks
don’t put any suction filters or heat exchangers. There’s a risk of cavitating the pump. If you’re going to do it put it on the return line. An extra couple psi on the return line doesn’t matter but it can destroy a pump with pressure drop on the suction side. And the oil is only a couple degrees difference between them it doesn’t matter where the heat is removed. but measure the temperature and make sure you have a problem to start with. A system that feels too hot to hold your hand on is working about right
firmwood
ArboristSite Operative
Kevin I understand what you are saying. The temperatures during the summer reached nonoperational temperatures a couple of times which let me know that heat dissipation needed to be addressed. With my 22 CFM pump just stacking splits now and then will allow system to cool well enough. With the V twin powered 28 CFM pump that can run close to 3,000 RPM more continuously it has been a greater concern. With the heavy wall tubing that was used in the construction is more prone to having slag or other debris enter in the system I thought that having filtration before oil enters the system essential. So I designed filtration to allow at least 60 CFM. I have not had any issues yet, but maybe it could crop up. The pump is an easy replacement though. Thanks
Nodak Andy
ArboristSite Member
thanks everyone, I do have a fair amount of 2" sch 160 pipe and had actually been considering the idea of making a radiator of sorts out of it like the one you described Ted. I have a few months to get this thing built, so I'll take my time and try to make sure everything I do makes sense. I'll be sure to take pictures as well.
I know Kevin J's background and I call him when I have a hydraulic question, so its hard for me to disagree with him, but sometimes I do. I believe in using a suction strainer mounted inside the hyd tank. I know when I am using my splitter, I am also usually running a chainsaw and chips seem to get everywhere. Unlike a filter, which is usually 10 or 20 micron, a strainer is usually around 100microns. It doesn't cause the suction restriction a filter would. It does stop larger debri that can damage a pump. I do like to oversize the strainer for the pump flow. ex. You have a 16gpm pump you use a 23 gpm strainer. Suction strainers are cheap and if they ever get clogged you just wash them out and reuse them. The second filter I use is a reservoir filler strainer. This helps keep any debri (saw dust), from getting in the tank in the first place. If the oil is kept clean, you shouldn't have any problems with clogging the suction strainer. The suction strainer would only have to catch any piece of seal, Oring, or similar junk that comes from internal wear and tear. A return filter catches those little pieces and keeps them out of the tank. A properly sized hyd tank and oil capacity shouldn't need a oil cooler or heat exchanger. Using a 16gpm pump, the hyd tank should have at least a 32gal capacity to prevent overheating. You wont find such tank sizes on box store splitters. Size, weight, and cost savings. Most wont even have a tank capacity of the pump size they use on their machines. If a person intends to use a box store splitter in a commercial operation, the addition of a cooler can provide long term benefits, as well as the addition of a return filter. My personal home made splitter doesn't have a oil cooler and I am using a 28gpm pump with a oil tank capacity of about 10 gal. It gets hot when I have lots of help keeping it fed with wood. When its just me, I run at half throttle and take lots of breaks so heat isn't a problem. I do have a suction strainer at the tank and a return filter for the oil. I also have a new oil cooler I have planned on putting on my splitter, just haven't gotten around to it.
I used a set of old Ford Explorer front wheel bearings and just put a 1 inch both through the axle shaft hole and built the rest of the axle out of 2” box tubing I just made a flat plate that fit the bearing and drilled holes for the hub assembly bolts wheels are off a explorer too 
I should clarify, I agree with Bill: I never put filters or coolers on suction, but do use strainers sometimes. If using them, I oversize maybe 2x for a piston pump, 1.5x or 2x for gear pump. Vendors are sales people.... For a machine operated by fairly unskilled people, peeking in the fill port without much care, a suction strainer is probably good.
Return filters always, filtered breather, always. No brillo pad breathers for me, but they would be ok on a logsplitter. Kcj
Return filters always, filtered breather, always. No brillo pad breathers for me, but they would be ok on a logsplitter. Kcj
firmwood
ArboristSite Operative
Uhhhhh
Proper tank socks should have a spring loaded baffle.
That way when screen plugs, it opens up fully without any filtration, so larger debris will immediately ruin the pump, instead of a slow death of starvation....
:/
Proper tank socks should have a spring loaded baffle.
That way when screen plugs, it opens up fully without any filtration, so larger debris will immediately ruin the pump, instead of a slow death of starvation....
:/
Sounds like even more of that "Milkyway" engineering.
firmwood
ArboristSite Operative
I don't understand this milky way comment?
Should I lie and explain something different?
I feel as though that's more... Inappropriate?
Although I did take a 8 bolt hub off a front spindle off a f250, which was held onto the tube with 5 smaller bolts... I cannot explain that one...
You've listed your location as "milkyway". Through this thread you've had some ideas that make no sense to me so I can only assume they are local engineering knowledge.
firmwood
ArboristSite Operative
I believe I mentioned original poster to do homework on hydraulic circuits, pressures, etc etc?
Sounds like a good idea to me.
And the spring loaded suction filter, that's not my idea. That's truly how they work.
Sounds like a good idea to me.
And the spring loaded suction filter, that's not my idea. That's truly how they work.
Spring loaded bypass in a suction filter? Never seen one. Return filters housings do have a spring to allow oil to bypass the filter in case of a clogg. Only reason I can see to have a spring loaded filter on the suction side would be if the filter was also acting as a backflow preventer/check valve so oil couldn't run out of the suction hose when the pump wasn't pumping. Example, when the pump is mounted higher than the oil tank which would allow the suction hose to drain back to tank on shut down, and cause a dry startup for the pump before oil is sucked back up into the suction hose. Even in this example I cant see the need for a spring loaded check valve to allow oil to bypass the suction filter during suction.
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