Building an Inertia/Kinetic Splitter

[walkerdogman85]

What is the diameter of the flywheels and how much do they weigh??

Not sure ill have to measure them the next time I Am out there.

 

[north1]

OEM means Original Equipment Manufactorer or what did it come off and what was it used for?

I'm not engineer my knowledge is only practical

My defense for flywheels of the truck is just in this that they are made to revolve far more than is necessary for the splitter they are capable of rotating up to 5000 rpm without worry ,here is the safety


all that is possible to find the information on the copy SS is already written is hard to find something new
Cmccul18146 wrote everything it matters

ps :Sorry for my English

 

[bower4311]

Now that we have hashed over some of the issues with sourcing parts for the build, lets talk about some of the engineering issues with the design on this splitter. Seems the biggest problem to having a successful inertia splitter is the engaging of the pinion gear to the rackgear. In my opinion these parts are miss used. They are not designed to be engaged while they are running with the momentom of 2 70lb flywheels driving the pinion. Superslit,Cmccul18146, and Larry Barnett have seemed have it down by having the pinion gear turning less then 200 rpm. This makes the sudden engagment not has much of a strain on the teeth of the pinion and rack gear. This is where Speeco went wrong with there inertia splitter. Larry Barnett has took the design one step further by having the flywheel turning faster then the pinion gear shaft (slower rack speed more momentum from the flywheel). Has also has the slowest moving rack I've seen witch makes it less scary to operate. It kind of just pushes the wood instead of slamming the wood into the wedge. I've had thoughts about somehow designing it so the pinion gear and the rackgear were always engaged. Then clutch the pinion shaft somehow. I was thinking of a lawn tractor electric pto clutch. i think it could work. It would take all the stress off the pinion gear and the rackgear. Just my thoughts.

That's an interesting concept. I've read many testimonials on here about the Super Split. I'm yet to find someone who has said they've needed to replace the rack and pinion from wear. Not that any of us will immediately duplicate the SS, but we should be able to have a rack and pinion that last a while. As long as the log is not so long that it's forced between the pusher plate and wedge, there should be very little load on the rack when the pinion engages it. Especially considering the rollers that will be used to guide the pusher plate. The gears are meant to mesh perfectly so I feel there shouldn't be a lot of problems with stress on the gears. Now, if you could design something like this, it would for sure be easier on the machine. I Just feel that engaging and disengaging that mechanism for it to run right would be a lot of extra work. Working at low speed RPMs should help a lot with wearing out the pinion or rack.

 

[vinced]

That's an interesting concept. I've read many testimonials on here about the Super Split. I'm yet to find someone who has said they've needed to replace the rack and pinion from wear. Not that any of us will immediately duplicate the SS, but we should be able to have a rack and pinion that last a while. As long as the log is not so long that it's forced between the pusher plate and wedge, there should be very little load on the rack when the pinion engages it. Especially considering the rollers that will be used to guide the pusher plate. The gears are meant to mesh perfectly so I feel there shouldn't be a lot of problems with stress on the gears. Now, if you could design something like this, it would for sure be easier on the machine. I Just feel that engaging and disengaging that mechanism for it to run right would be a lot of extra work. Working at low speed RPMs should help a lot with wearing out the pinion or rack.

Like I said. These pinion gears are not designed to be engaged to the rack while the pinion is turning and has torque on it. Most of the applications the pinion is fixed mounted so it is properly meshed with the rack all the time. Think of a manual transmission in a car. They have syncronizers to slow down the shaft speeds and to take the torque off them so the gears can engage.

 

[bower4311]

I agree that's not how they're supposed to be used but if you keep the flywheel speed down they could last a long time. But I do accept that I could go through a rack and pinion multiple times if I screw up some design work.

Does anyone know if there would be a huge difference between 20 and 14.5 degree rack and pinion for this application?

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[yeknom]

i have my flywheels, bearings,rack and pinion and a chunk of the "frame" built. im looking at making mine electric, i will be working on it this week and will post some pictures and details here.

 

[vinced]

I agree that's not how they're supposed to be used but if you keep the flywheel speed down they could last a long time. But I do accept that I could go through a rack and pinion multiple times if I screw up some design work.

Does anyone know if there would be a huge difference between 20 and 14.5 degree rack and pinion for this application?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Its to my understanding that 14.5 degree is stronger and is the prefered one to use. Pitch is another story. Most people are using a 4 or 6 pitch rack and pinion. 6 pitch seems to be the most common among the vendors of the rack gears.

 

[vinced]

i have my flywheels, bearings,rack and pinion and a chunk of the "frame" built. im looking at making mine electric, i will be working on it this week and will post some pictures and details here.

Love to hear more about the parts you have collected and can't wait to see the pictures!

 

[brenndatomu]

Its to my understanding that 14.5 degree is stronger and is the prefered one to use. Pitch is another story. Most people are using a 4 or 6 pitch rack and pinion. 6 pitch seems to be the most common among the vendors of the rack gears.

The McMaster Carr catalog says that the 20 deg gears have stronger teeth and are designed for higher load capacities. Also says, the coarser the pitch (4 vs 6) the more heavy duty it is considered. (although anything under 20 is considered to be heavy duty) (under 20 = HD, 20 - 64 = med. duty, 64 and up = light duty)

 

[bower4311]

Love to hear more about the parts you have collected and can't wait to see the pictures!

+1

Its to my understanding that 14.5 degree is stronger and is the prefered one to use. Pitch is another story. Most people are using a 4 or 6 pitch rack and pinion. 6 pitch seems to be the most common among the vendors of the rack gears.

The McMaster Carr catalog says that the 20 deg gears have stronger teeth and are designed for higher load capacities. Also says, the coarser the pitch (4 vs 6) the more heavy duty it is considered. (although anything under 20 is considered to be heavy duty) (under 20 = HD, 20 - 64 = med. duty, 64 and up = light duty)

This is research I've gathered on the web.

20 deg. gears require a closer tolerance on the gear-to-gear center distance to obtain the same backlash as 14-1/2 deg. gears.

and

Generally 14 1/2 degree compared to 20 deg pressure angles

14 1/2 degree PAs will have:

Higher contact ratio
Lower Bending Strength
Higher Shear Strength
More undercut
Lower bearing stresses and separation loads

20 degree PA will have:
Lower contact ratios
Higher Bending Strenth
Lower Shear Strenght
Less Undercut
Higher Bearing stress and separation loads

Most people are worried about Bending Strength in their designs - hence use 20 deg PA as a starting point.

Where are 14 1/2 deg PA an advantage?
- worm drives where the primary failure mode is augering of the worm thru the gear - esp if the gear is plastic
- designs that are challenging to achieve a contact ratio of greater than 1
- designs where bearing life is marginal

For what it's worth. I don't understand 100% of what is being said here but something seems to lead me to 14.5 being better for the merging process that we're using (unless someone can come up with something else) that involves pushing the gears together for them to contact each other.

 

[vinced]

+1





This is research I've gathered on the web.



and



For what it's worth. I don't understand 100% of what is being said here but something seems to lead me to 14.5 being better for the merging process that we're using (unless someone can come up with something else) that involves pushing the gears together for them to contact each other.

I could have been wrong on the 14.5 being better. I'll have to look up in the other thread what other people and manufactures have used. I actually bought a 15 tooth 6 pitch pinion gear off Ebay cheap a few years ago, but I haven't been able to locate it. It will pop up sooner or later.

 

[yeknom]

could someone tell me how to post pics?

 

[bower4311]

could someone tell me how to post pics?

There are multiple ways. Probably the easiest for you would be to click this button.

View attachment 288062

Then you will see this, you have to upload the image. Click "Add Files" at the top then "Select Files" then select files. Then click "Upload Files" Then hit "Done" at the very bottom right of that window. That should attach them to your post.

View attachment 288061

If it doesn't automatically attach it, you can click the dropdown arrow to the right of the paperclip you first clicked on, then click each image and it will automatically insert that picture with the proper coding into your post.

 

[bower4311]

I could have been wrong on the 14.5 being better. I'll have to look up in the other thread what other people and manufactures have used. I actually bought a 15 tooth 6 pitch pinion gear off Ebay cheap a few years ago, but I haven't been able to locate it. It will pop up sooner or later.

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to buy a cheap-o pinion gear, an expensive rack, then if something gives it will be the gear. And if it lasts a long time, then great.

 

[vinced]

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to buy a cheap-o pinion gear, an expensive rack, then if something gives it will be the gear. And if it lasts a long time, then great.

That was my thought in the earlier post. Make the pinion gear the weak link.

 

[bower4311]

That was my thought in the earlier post. Make the pinion gear the weak link.

As long as it doesn't cost you and you can remove the shaft relatively easily then I'm glad you suggested that because it makes sense. I will probably do that if I can find a real cheap gear.

 

[Duane(Pa)]

I want to subscribe. I would offer the following suggestion about flywheels; if you can find a tractor salvage yard, Ag tractors have very heavy flywheels compared to truck or auto. They are thick, not large (diameter). In a bone yard, they often have more than one of the same model donor maybe even sitting side by side. Just a thought.

 

[bower4311]

That's a good idea. Although it is preferable to have a bigger diameter but it's an idea. I wonder about wheel weights for tractors. Maybe certain ones would work.

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[yeknom]

View attachment 288095 ok test lol ..... ha i think i got it! thanks bower!

 

[bower4311]

View attachment 288095 ok test lol ..... ha i think i got it! thanks bower!

No problem!

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