Tigwelder83
ArboristSite Operative
Did I not answer his question of what size and type of rope used? I didn't know the brand, so I didn't guess at who made it.
bull rope for pulling trees over
- Thread starter talcott
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I'm a guy who rather go to big than to small..I use a 1/2 inch climbing rope to pull my Bull rope up over a limb and my Bull Rope is 3/4 double Braided Nylon.. Back in the day it cost about 300 bucks for 150 foot hank..I've used it to pull a huge tree between two houses..The trick I use is The big rope and a climbing line as a guide line if I have to be Spot on..I cut the back cut to the point the rope is not loaded much to get the tree over..The danger of a Bull rope is SLACK in the line..In my case the guide line can keep it in the fall once it's started over..I'm sure other guys may have their own tricks..
OMG..I got that SICK feeling when you mentioned the thick hinge and the rope.. I have a fear of a rope snapping and the Tree breaking backwards..I've never seen it but I've heard about it.. The guy made a (improper back cut ) a Steep back cut angled downward thinking that was a good idea. Then they pulled on the THICK hinge until the rope broke..The tree had been pulled over some but snapped backwards ( like a bow and arrow) releasing it's energy and the hinge broke..according to the story teller no one was killed but just thinking about that makes my gut hurt.. If I'd noticed something like that I'd have wedged up got the load off the line and thinned the hinge a little bit more.. BUT,, I'd never have made an angled back cut..that's not how I was taught..Others may do it and like it but not me..just my opinion, not starting anything..
Did you think about applying w
water to the roots? Maybe a pressure washer? Just thinking..wondering..by hitching up high and loading it and using the tree's own weight and leverage just maybe washing the roots would have worked.. BUT.. the problem with a PINE is the Tap root under ground is about as big as the tree stump above ground.. I've dug them out before.. It's a job..Now an Oak with it's root ball might have been easier and even easier with water..Down in the swamps a good blow can blow a huge oak over if there's a lot of rain that years and the ground is really wet..I've cut a many like that.. The Danger is the huge Root Ball. If you are blocking from the top toward the bottom or stump..At some point the weight of the root ball is heavier than the last piece you cut off and it can just, without warning sit back in the stump hole....Don't want kids and dogs around when cutting up a tree with big root ball..
So if a tree has telephone pole balance of CoG directly over hinge pivot; half the weight is pulling forward and half backward without side lean. We virtually simply tip the balance of forces with wedge or rope to fell home to target. Forces greater than that can make stronger/thicker hinge before beast breathes/moves on own or faster fall on input forces after tree committed.
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If rope is 40' up from hinge pivot and pulled at 1000#, yields 40k forward force on hinge, how much do we need? To require much more force to upgrade to bull rope?? How high is CoG? Are we past it? More higher rigid pull points instead of thicker rope? This should be more overwhelming force yes, but gingerly applied w/plenty of headroom, not scared gunning, especially of gas.
I prefer if using truck as input, sound ground, weight loaded over rear axle, plenty of gas and a low pulley redirect so no upward force on truck as tensions to lift some and reduce traction some. Plus gives more angles of pull with truck..
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If forward lean , odds even more in favor, balance already tipped, more input on target axis makes thicker/stronger hinge. If some side lean I prefer forward pull to thicker hinge more likely to be able to ballast against sideLean especially as Tapered Hinge(link). Pulls/pushes against sideLean lose longer term hinge leverage vs. confronting sideLean more temporarily and directly as not routing thru hinge multiplier.
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Rear Lean different, draw CoG uphill to over hinge pivot, then proceeds home to splash down side. Hard to work Tapered Hinge, so favor no sideLean. Step Dutch can help sway from hazard on splash down side, but risky.
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If rope is 40' up from hinge pivot and pulled at 1000#, yields 40k forward force on hinge, how much do we need? To require much more force to upgrade to bull rope?? How high is CoG? Are we past it? More higher rigid pull points instead of thicker rope? This should be more overwhelming force yes, but gingerly applied w/plenty of headroom, not scared gunning, especially of gas.
I prefer if using truck as input, sound ground, weight loaded over rear axle, plenty of gas and a low pulley redirect so no upward force on truck as tensions to lift some and reduce traction some. Plus gives more angles of pull with truck..
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If forward lean , odds even more in favor, balance already tipped, more input on target axis makes thicker/stronger hinge. If some side lean I prefer forward pull to thicker hinge more likely to be able to ballast against sideLean especially as Tapered Hinge(link). Pulls/pushes against sideLean lose longer term hinge leverage vs. confronting sideLean more temporarily and directly as not routing thru hinge multiplier.
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Rear Lean different, draw CoG uphill to over hinge pivot, then proceeds home to splash down side. Hard to work Tapered Hinge, so favor no sideLean. Step Dutch can help sway from hazard on splash down side, but risky.
Why would you rope a forward lean?
Stronger hinge, slower fall, stronger hinge can also help fight sideLean. Also, just to exercise such control for when really needed.
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Sometimes might not fall directly into lean so that less direct ground hit and load on hinge, and then stronger hinge forced with rope.
i look at false loading before commitment exercises hinge stronger, then once committed and relieve extra load on hinge is like runner working out with backpack and throwing that extra weight off, now stronger w/o extra load. A wedge does give lift, rotate then relief as tree commits more to this pattern, with rope can control longer but need to meter how long you pull.
Some shorter trees can about be arm wrestled to ground, showing extra control time on hinge.
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Have taken concept into tree to force stronger hinge, even to rigging with rope midway almost to CoG and forcing stronger hinge almost as an also butt tie support, that can be cut off, use while pivot load into position on hinge, then cut free. Actually started that with extra short rope on butt for same purpose, use to position load more under rope support, then undo quick release, even cut thru a few times. Worked like a charm, then figured why cut hinge fiber and replace with rope fiber..
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Especially in more vertical felling, like if sitting at 10degrees 12degrees lean will have 20% of leveraged load exercising hinge to strength X, pulls over earlier and thicker with high leverage rope. In either case, by the time gets to 24degrees(i look at this in 6degree increments like clock that hit such round numbers) will have 40% leveraged load against hinge forced at 20% with or without the extra 'exercise' but also X speed SQUARED. So, the exercise more prepares tree for journey on hinge of increasing difficulty. Horizontal rigging sweep across has no sideways pressure(only downward) on it to force strong hinge cleanly into face, until add extra rope to induce this, now once again stronger hinge, and then another rope helping to rig usually in orchestration.
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Sometimes might not fall directly into lean so that less direct ground hit and load on hinge, and then stronger hinge forced with rope.
i look at false loading before commitment exercises hinge stronger, then once committed and relieve extra load on hinge is like runner working out with backpack and throwing that extra weight off, now stronger w/o extra load. A wedge does give lift, rotate then relief as tree commits more to this pattern, with rope can control longer but need to meter how long you pull.
Some shorter trees can about be arm wrestled to ground, showing extra control time on hinge.
.
Have taken concept into tree to force stronger hinge, even to rigging with rope midway almost to CoG and forcing stronger hinge almost as an also butt tie support, that can be cut off, use while pivot load into position on hinge, then cut free. Actually started that with extra short rope on butt for same purpose, use to position load more under rope support, then undo quick release, even cut thru a few times. Worked like a charm, then figured why cut hinge fiber and replace with rope fiber..
.
Especially in more vertical felling, like if sitting at 10degrees 12degrees lean will have 20% of leveraged load exercising hinge to strength X, pulls over earlier and thicker with high leverage rope. In either case, by the time gets to 24degrees(i look at this in 6degree increments like clock that hit such round numbers) will have 40% leveraged load against hinge forced at 20% with or without the extra 'exercise' but also X speed SQUARED. So, the exercise more prepares tree for journey on hinge of increasing difficulty. Horizontal rigging sweep across has no sideways pressure(only downward) on it to force strong hinge cleanly into face, until add extra rope to induce this, now once again stronger hinge, and then another rope helping to rig usually in orchestration.
I have a 150' piece of 1/2" Amsteel that I use to help direct the fall when I can't direct it with the hinge and wedges. Thimbles in the ends of it, no knots. Usually tied to a 65 hp tractor. I have a big stainless pulley and 1" bull rope that is used sometimes if the tractor can't be in the position that I need it to be. I can usually put the pulley on another tree and have the tractor wherever it needs to be. I use a throw line to get the pull rope up in the tree. Before the thimble was put on that end a 10' chafe protector sleeve was slipped over the 1/2" rope.
99% of my tree pulling action is with 5/8" stable braid and it's been great for both pulling and rigging down some pretty big stuff.
If I were putting together a starter tree pulling kit for a guy that planned on pulling a good amount of trees with trucks/tractors/skid steers/winches etc:
Throwline kit
200' of 5/8" stable braid(or whatever quality rope brand you like)
2 slings for attaching the blocks
2 5/8" arborist blocks(the cheap steel ones, not the expensive aluminum ones)
A book on how to properly tie girth hitch, half hitch, clove hitch, running bowline, and bowline on a bight. The first three for attaching the throw line securely to the pull rope and the last two for attaching pull rope to tree and pull rope to pulling device. You could also use a farmers loop or an alpine butterfly as a midline loop, however, I find those are a bit harder to untie after a significant load.
If I were putting together a starter tree pulling kit for a guy that planned on pulling a good amount of trees with trucks/tractors/skid steers/winches etc:
Throwline kit
200' of 5/8" stable braid(or whatever quality rope brand you like)
2 slings for attaching the blocks
2 5/8" arborist blocks(the cheap steel ones, not the expensive aluminum ones)
A book on how to properly tie girth hitch, half hitch, clove hitch, running bowline, and bowline on a bight. The first three for attaching the throw line securely to the pull rope and the last two for attaching pull rope to tree and pull rope to pulling device. You could also use a farmers loop or an alpine butterfly as a midline loop, however, I find those are a bit harder to untie after a significant load.
