Burls, Collars and Natural Targets

[MasterBlaster]

Hahaha.

 

[treeseer]

Blue dot lower right. Looks like we got a cat's game, Ekka.

"limbs that die slowly because of natural events, seem to close over better, than those limbs that are cut off."

Agree.

 

[Ekka]

"limbs that die slowly because of natural events, seem to close over better, than those limbs that are cut off."

Agree.

I wouldn't agree or disagree because I think it depends on the way the limb died. Just last Friday we were up some big gums deadwooding and there were some hideous stubs and callus growth where the limbs were torn off and callus wood had to close over some tough terrain and large surface areas, we helped out by cutting off deadwood only.

There were limbs that were dead and the callus wood was growing over further out, and further again as the dead didn't break off ... how long would this have to continue before the the growth got to the end?

There were some previous pruning cuts from 2 years ago that were doing really well, predominantly collar cuts and there were some that were RS. The RS ones were predominantly co-dominant cuts ... very little callus growth.

Also there were some lower limbs that were dead (shaded out) only about 2" dia that I grabbed and broke out of the collar/socket they were in. The socket was about 1" deep into the tree and fully closed off, a little kino residue on some, so that was a really good display of how the defence system works inside of a branch collar ... I suppose now the tree will just close up the hole.

It could also be a species specific thing and age/vigor thing. These trees were over mature, but I've pruned some young vigorous gums where closure on limbs of 4" dia took place in under 2 years, yet on a poinciana it might take 4 to 5 years.

So, I'm not sold either way, it really depends on individual cases, look at your pic on this thread, that's a typical example of a poor attempt by nature as the dead part hasn't broken off and now is tapering and die back advancing on the upper side.

 

[treeseer]

Ekka how bout totin yer camera into the tree tomorrow?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Sunday?

 

[Ekka]

Well, we're not working there tomorrow. That was the clean up prep job for the QAA climbing comp up at Mt Tamborine, our college did a free hazard reduction on the trees at the site last Friday.

Anyway, I'll keep my eyes peeled for pics in future. You know what it's like, you do things so often and think nothing of it but in hindsight people could learn from what your doing ... whether it be right or wrong I suppose.

 

[treeseer]

Sunday?

oops, I meant "next time" Not everyone works on sundays like me I guess. I really want to see these node-free trees. they're hard to find on eucs I know but there are other trees over there; he's sent us pics on the trivia thread so I know there are.

From what he said eucs form burls tho.

 

[treeseer]

That was the clean up prep job for the QAA climbing comp up at Mt Tamborine,

Hope you didn't gut the tree like they did for the ISASC TCC last year--a nice big Quercus phellos, every limb lion-tailed so the competitors could swing freely. Nasty. The International TCC will be at the same site this year, maybe the same tree tho it's not as tall as the one in Pittsburgh they used last year. Will the QAA champ be coming to the USA in august?

I'll keep my eyes peeled for pics in future. You know what it's like, you do things so often and think nothing of it but in hindsight people could learn from what your doing ... whether it be right or wrong I suppose.

That's the reason to have the digicam in the cargo pocket at all times. It's a lot easier to justify extra time and $ for work when the client can see that big old crack in your camera's screen.

Re right or wrong, yeah, like that burl I left too much canker on way back in the first post of this thread.
Way wrong like my overseers here have pointed out.

 

[Ekka]

So Treeseer, have you got another pic of the final episode, the grand finale cut?

 

[murphy4trees]

Isn't there a slight flare just a little back from Guy's cut, but not as far back as Ekka's.
That'd be my preference.
Argued this one with Big Jon and Pat before. I tend to leave stubs, more than they do.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

IMO if there is any question I will stub. Personal observation and listening to people like Gilman who have builed on Shigos work show that just a few small sprouts can assist compartmentalization.

And if it is a non-colar union, (I call this primary branching, where a colar is secondary branching. This differentiates from true codom's) you do not have to protection zone so the sprouts are that much more important.

 

[treeseer]

Finally made the final cut, at the bulge 3" out from the original collar. The portion removed was VERY heavy; while I lament the loss of all that stored carbohydrate etc I felt it necessary to get the rot out. Some dead tissue on the upper side remains, but the black line indicates to me that it is well-compartmentalized. Thanks to all for your help on this.

 

[R Schra]

Seeing those pics at last it lookes to me a grown watersprout with bad attachment to the tree. It will die back i'm sure. I would cut it against the main trunk flushcut or not.

 

[Ekka]

Good on you Treeseer for finishing the job ....

.... but I still disagree however it's quite obvious we are not going to change each others opinion. To me that's a stub with decay.

 

[Jim1NZ]

I cannot agree with you more Ekka, it is going to decay all the way back to the attachment if that stub is left!

 

[Ekka]

In fact the more I look at this the more inclined I would be to go even further like R Schra reckons, his cut is just outside the wrinkly trunk tissue, put it this way ... I'd rather that than a dying stub that doesn't callus ...

... I'd probably ask the customer to keep an eye on it and if it continues to die back and not callus ... up you go again. Just another look at his pic

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

What the discussion is failing to address is the fact that this was an extended collar. To me, the extended collar is similar to any other branch collar. You would never recommend intentionally cutting into a normal looking branch collar, but for some reason, here some people are suggesting the flush cut. Cutting any part of a living branch collar is a flush cut.
There was some talk that there was a fungal canker on the limb, and I'm not familiar with this species or local cankers, so I hesitantly agreed that cutting past it was ok.
My experience is that if you cut part of a long extended collar off, it tends to die back part, or all the way, back to the trunk.
If that were most any tree around here, I would have left the extended branch collar intact. The discoloring to me looks like a perfectly normal area of dead wood. Then, if in time, it died back, I'd cut it again back to living wood.

 

[R Schra]

What the discussion is failing to address is the fact that this was an extended collar.

sorry im not sure it was so in fact it was not for me. Only live feeling seeing can tell i quess.

To me, the extended collar is similar to any other branch collar. You would never recommend intentionally cutting into a normal looking branch collar, but for some reason, here some people are suggesting the flush cut. Cutting any part of a living branch collar is a flush cut.

If it is a extended collar youre right. I am revering to flushcut as were i pointed out isnt a collar to see.

My experience is that if you cut part of a long extended collar off, it tends to die back part, or all the way, back to the trunk.
If that were most any tree around here, I would have left the extended branch collar intact. The discoloring to me looks like a perfectly normal area of dead wood. Then, if in time, it died back, I'd cut it again back to living wood.

My expierence is that branches that sow this growth, downwards orientated, looking like grown watersprouts that are bad attached, they die back even inside the trunk. You will get an hollowed/rotten cut after a while. I strongly believe that reaction growth in DOWNward orientated branches is very minimum or even not taking place.

rgrds Ronald

 

[R Schra]

Got some work pics today

Do you like such work

 

[R Schra]

an other beech tree to look at.