cable logging question

[cat-face timber]

Here we use Front end loaders or knuckle boom loaders to load our logs.

Well my question is, the big crane that has the box that is suspended on cables that goes down and the choke setters connect to the logs and they are dragged up the hill to the landing.
That is all fine and good, but what if the landing is at the bottom of the hill, or do you just not setup where the landing is at the bottom of the hill?

 

[Joe46]

It's called downhill yarding. It nobodies favorite.

 

[lumberjack48]

If it can't be yarded up hill, they will yard it down hill. Pulling down hill increases the danger because of the weight of the logs. This puts the landing man and yarder at high risk of getting hit, they have to be careful when yarding own hill.

 

[slowp]

That box is called a carriage. It isn't used to load logs. It gets the logs to the landing where the logs are picked up by a loader and put in a deck or on trucks.

Downhill yarding is done in these parts when building a road to the top of the unit is not doable. That's either because of terrain, economics or environmental concerns.

Downhill yarding is twice as slow as yarding uphill. Prepare to have production drop by half. To do it safer, you should have a flat runout near the landing to help slow the logs down.

Rigging up is harder. You have to have a haulback line hooked to the carriage to get it back up the hill and to control the speed going downhill, loaded. The rigging rats have to pack gear uphill to rig up the tailholds.
Nobody likes it.

I was convinced that you couldn't downhill yard in a partial cut without excessive damage to the leave trees. A few good crews have proved otherwise.

This is one of the downhill sides working on some pretty mellow ground. The upper part of the unit was logged uphill to a road, and they chose to log the bottom half downhill to the road. Note how slow it goes.
This crew was excellent and very little damage was done to the leave trees. The yarder was a very small Madill.

[video=youtube;qFkx6jbks0k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFkx6jbks0k&feature=share&list=UU9mFXlXjEJvJoCImQvFXVSg[/video]

 

[slowp]

This shows the carriage working. I took this from far away using the zoom. This is in a clearcut.

[video=youtube;gZrbd_qN8tE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZrbd_qN8tE&feature=share&list=UU9mFXlXjEJvJoCImQvFXVSg[/video]

 

[slowp]

Here are some still pictures from the guys who first showed me they could do minimal damage to the leave trees. They were very professional to work with and on one slightly downhill corridor had even rigged up an intermediate support (jack), which I don't have any photos of.

View attachment 289506View attachment 289507View attachment 289508View attachment 289509

 

[Humptulips]

I can't imagine how downhill thinning would be productive enough to be cost effective.
I would have to see it done before I would believe you could keep damage down too.

Slowp, That video made it look like pretty short yarding where they were thinning. How Far?

 

[slowp]

I can't imagine how downhill thinning would be productive enough to be cost effective.
I would have to see it done before I would believe you could keep damage down too.

Slowp, That video made it look like pretty short yarding where they were thinning. How Far?

It isn't productive. But, it is spelled out where it has to be done so the bids can include that slow time.
On our National Forest land, the enviro groups, and some 'ologists have a cow about building new or even reopening old roads so it boils down to either going downhill or helicopter. Sad.

The clearcut was on private ground. I do not know their logic.

The thinning loggers in the video were just getting going on that corridor. 700 feet was the average distance. The little yarder crew did have one setting where they skinned up trees. A new faller was on the job in that strip and messed things up.

Like uphill yarding, lift is a good thing.

 

[Joe46]

Was that St. Helens ash I saw kicking up?

 

[cat-face timber]

Thanks for all the info.

It makes sence now.

 

[Humptulips]

It isn't productive. But, it is spelled out where it has to be done so the bids can include that slow time.
On our National Forest land, the enviro groups, and some 'ologists have a cow about building new or even reopening old roads so it boils down to either going downhill or helicopter. Sad.

The clearcut was on private ground. I do not know their logic.

The thinning loggers in the video were just getting going on that corridor. 700 feet was the average distance. The little yarder crew did have one setting where they skinned up trees. A new faller was on the job in that strip and messed things up.

Like uphill yarding, lift is a good thing.

I know the FS lets a lot slide as far as damage, at least from what I have seen.
I feel an explantion is in order why I look towards damge with such a keen eye.
I thinned for Rayonier and WEYCO for I guess 7 or 8 years. They were pretty strict on the amount of damage we could leave, Rayonier more so then WEYCO.
We basically were not allowed to leave any trees with damage above waist height and below that no more then a place half the size of your hand. I see the FS sales with a lot of skinned up trees. I know they prescibe what can be cut and leave the logger very little leeway. We were allowed to cut anything that was damaged. We left a lot of extra trees and fell all damaged trees as we were picking up a road or if there were no damage we selected trees at that time to get the trees per acre to the correct amount. It worked pretty well.

On the other hand we cleaned up a place once that had been ground skidded and a lot of the trees had been barked pretty severely below waist height, some up to shoulder high. This had been done 4 years previous. We took out the damaged trees along with some blowdown. Everyone of those damaged trees had to have 20', long-butted for rot. The rot had run up the tree that far in just 4 years. Some were hemlock but others were fir. 2nd growth fir rots fast too. Just buck up a fir that has a healed over catface and you'll see what I mean.
I've talked with FS people and they say the damage wil heal over and a lot will. They don't realize by allowing that damage to take place that tree with two sawlogs in it is going to be 100% pulp and that is if it doesn't break off in a windstorm before the next cut.

From what I have seen a lot of the thinning is totally screwing up the stands for the long run. Around here all the private companies have quit thinning except I see WEYCO still doing a little with their cut to length sides, forwarders.

 

[OlympicYJ]

Hey hump you didn't happen to run yarder for Dewey did ya? I know he's done some cable thinning for Rayonier in the past. When I was interning in 2010 and 2012 no commercial thinning period. They were looking at doing some again and last j knew had done a few test units to get a feel for it again.

100% right on the damage. Personally I feel CTL can minimise the damage enough to make thinning feasible. Cable and whole tree skidding seems to be pretty damaging.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Humptulips]

Hey hump you didn't happen to run yarder for Dewey did ya? I know he's done some cable thinning for Rayonier in the past. When I was interning in 2010 and 2012 no commercial thinning period. They were looking at doing some again and last j knew had done a few test units to get a feel for it again.

100% right on the damage. Personally I feel CTL can minimise the damage enough to make thinning feasible. Cable and whole tree skidding seems to be pretty damaging.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

I hooked for Dewey when he was in cahoots with Shermer. They had just bought that T-Bird. We weren't thinning though. Logged mostly for Sierra. Hooked for Brunstead logging WEYCO land and Steve Vessey for Rayonier, all thinning. Did a little thinning on the Bremerton watershed too for Steve.
Steve was a heck of a good guy. Passed to soon.

I never ran any equipment. Seems like I was always wanted to tend hook until I wore out of course.

 

[Humptulips]

Hey hump you didn't happen to run yarder for Dewey did ya? I know he's done some cable thinning for Rayonier in the past. When I was interning in 2010 and 2012 no commercial thinning period. They were looking at doing some again and last j knew had done a few test units to get a feel for it again.

100% right on the damage. Personally I feel CTL can minimise the damage enough to make thinning feasible. Cable and whole tree skidding seems to be pretty damaging.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

You know I do think cable thinning is doable in fir. You need the right guys for the job though. Some are not cut out for it. Also you have to accept the fact that it is going to be slow. Anybody tells me they are geting more then 4 loads a day thinning, I'll think there is something fishy.

Don't even think about it in hemlock stands though. Without exception every hemlock stand we thinned suffered severe to moderate windthrow. They all had to be logged within a few years of thinning.

 

[056kid]

The only good hemlock is a dead hemlock.

That is Coast to coast...

 

[echoshawn]

The weeds of north Idaho... Hemlock and Grand Fir.....

 

[Rounder]

Guy I work for did well in the past down-hilling what were put up as heli sales on company ground. He has a side-rod that's pretty savvy on down-hilling.....That's key.

 

[slowp]

The crew is the key. And the fallers of course. The faller messed up his strip by dumping all his trees straight down the hill. That makes it hard to pull them into the corridor.

The good crews take pride in not damaging trees. They take time too. They'll stop things and rehook the logs if they have to. That is part of the slowness.

We need some clearcuts in the National Forest. The huckleberry patches are closing in. The elk are hanging out year round in the valley. We're getting short on openings.

 

[slowp]

Another picture.

View attachment 289745

 

[mainewoods]

Certainly is different than what you see on Axe Men where they thrash and tear up anything in the way. It's all about the amount of loads a day and who wins. Good to know some take their time and do it right!