Cabling, Bracing, Lightining

[Lumberjack]

I figure that I am gonna start doin cabling and bracing, and possibly lightning protection.

On the cabling I want to do mainly Cobra, but also steel, when required.

I have the ANSI stands for tree support book, and another one that is part of a set (lightning protection, pruning, cabling, and fert/nutrition).

I would like to read up more on the subject, so I can stand up on the shoulders of those who are already doing it.

What books, websites, or whatever would yall reccommend?

What system (where it is purchased, ect) do yall use for lightning protection?


Lotta babbaling, but who really cares?


Thanks

 

[Lumberjack]

JPS could you change the poll to multiple choice. I messed up when I changed the number of options, and forgot to recheck the box.

Thanks

 

[rbtree]

Yo Carl,

You got that electric word speeled rite once..outta three or four...

Cobra is cool...I've done many installs....

 

[MasterBlaster]

Yur gonna LOVE installing lightining protection!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I do mostly dynamic, since it is freindlier to the tree.

Oh and it is easier to install.

Static still has it's place though.

 

[ORclimber]

I just started using dynamic systems this year, since being introduced to Sherrill. No one around here sells them. I've been doing cobra on stuff that is easily visable from the ground and Treesave on the higher up stuff. My fear being that the higher up cables will be forgotten(girdling), if the people sell their house.

Cobra is easier to install than Treesave. Treesave can be terminated using hardware, a plus on big branches/double trunks IMO. If you buy Treesave be sure to get the add on aluminum fid.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Ive never done any lightning protection.

The only place that I use static cabling any more is in trees that are already split. In those cases I pull the tree together, install through bolts in the trunk. Then I'll put a steel cable in but keep it really low. Up in the crown I use dynamic cabling. These hybrid systems are a good combo.

If there isn't a split Ill use dynamic alone.

Tom

 

[NeTree]

All of the above.

Invest in some stainless steel tags you can write on with permanent marker to act as a reminder to have the tree looked at. I think they sell tags for the purpose, i just can't remember where offhand.

 

[Stumper]

Static cabling and bracing only thus far- I'm ready to do dynamic if another job arises but steel was all I knew of until a few years ago and the last couple of situations have been suited to static anyway. I had one large tree that would have been perfect for dynamic but it A. already had a static system in it(improperly installed) and B. the people needed things done at minimal expense. So I went static and they waited 4 years then removed the entire tree.

I have installed lightning protection but back when I lived in an area where it was in demand I couldn't bring myself to sell it-I saw stats on its efficacy that screamed "waste-of money". I also removed a couple of lightening struck trees that had the "protection" that the other guy in town was selling. Since he was running 3/8 Aluminium cable rather than a copper system. It may not have been fair to dismiss all lightning protection but there was no denying that THAT didn't work!

 

[Lumberjack]

Are there any books, videos, or other literature that yall would recommend?

 

[Matt Follett]

Dynamic mostly now too...

Big proponent of it, even have a local municpality on board and we've installed for them!

One thing to be careful of is liabilty, I have a letter which I have the client sign saying basically that we've installed a support system but it's not 100% bomb proof, risk can't be eliminated unless we remove the tree bla bla bla, make sure it is inspected (this is the owners responsibility not the tree company) etc.

Personally not a big fan of Tree save TM more a cobra guy, ease and design etc.

 

[Matt Follett]

Oh yeah and check your area for Lightning protection, here you must be a certified installer even for trees.

 

[jmchristopher]

All the above

I've done all the above, though not usually in the same tree. There's still another "first" out there somewhere, I bet.
Nowadays I'm putting almost entirely TreeSave in, saving the steel for special situations only. Lightning Protection works, ???? near the only thing that I'd give a guarantee on, if it's installed right. It's pricy, but very reliable, and one of the best things you can do for the tree if it's in a high strike area and the tallest tree. The very best candidate customers for it are folks who've just had a hit take out their favorite tree, their car, their home computer and security system. Make sure to spec periodic inspection and maintenance, like every 5 years or so, and get a Meggar meter to check the ground impedance of your own and other folks systems you run into. The meter is about the only way to be sure somebody hasn't trenched through the underground conductor without digging it up. (or that it's been grounded at all!)

 

[Matt Follett]

Rocky

You think so? I have often wondered about the validity of it's use, have never pursued it, or looked into research on it's effectiveness. Listened to a talk on it years ago, but it was sort of a sell.

Does anybody know of articles pertaining to this, bla bla. etc.

During that talk it was basically stated that the company was installing them in places were it had already struck, and the thought was that you could detract the charge away from valuable trees and to the protected tree.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I'm with Matt, LP is a proven science and been around since Benj. Franklin invented the first one.

It is not a thing anyone can do, you have to have an understanding of electricity to be able to build a proper grounding system.

Protection is not the only reason for installing a lightning system in a tree, they are put in to attract lightning away from structures in areas of high strike occurance, since trees are often the tallest structure around.

I've been asked about LP on several occasions. I set several chriteria for people before recomending they find people to do the work.

• determin that the plant is of irreplaceable value
• that they will comit to a regular inspection and maintinace program for the protection system
• determine if they are in an area of high stike potential
• or determin if they are intent on doing everything possibel to ensure the long life of the tree in question and money is the lowest factor.
• that they realize that wind and snow/ ice loads are higher risks of failure in our area
• lastly that the system is risk reduction and not elimination. In the event of a strike some damamge to the tree amy be incured. And that the syetem may need amintinance after a strike.
  [/list=a]
  
  So far the people I have talked to have determined that LP is not needed

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Wulkie had some pretty strong feelings about LP. Being an elec. engineer he was sure qualified to talk about that.

One point that Bob made that has stuck with me is to understand that by installing lightning "protection" we're actually drawing lightning to the tree. If the system isn't installed and designed correctly there could be more problems. What happens if that lightning jumps to the house and fries the computer?

Before you do any installations you should do plenty of reearch and talk with your insurance company.

I son't believe the LP is as much of a "shake and bake" proposition as the industry makes it out to be.

Tom

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I agree comletely.

My Dad's a Ham Radio freek and i was an RO in the Corps.

Every poor connection will result in impeadance and a poorly designed gorund is no ground at all.

Which is why I allways talk about finding someoen to do it. Screwing copper weld to the tree is only the last step.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by TreeCo

the lightning rods bleed off the static charge and reduce the chance of a strike in that area.

This is called "brush disipation" and prooven to be ineffective.

The reason for a good grounding system is that your standard LP system is a "best path" option for the energy to travle.

 

[NickfromWI]

I've installed LP on 3 trees. I liked it...fun stuff!

love
nick

 

[NeTree]

The real challenge is getting the ground system right. Consideration must be taken in regards to soil moisture, type, salinity...etc...

You wouldn't believe the grounding system I had to install here for my radio stuff because of the soil.

JPS, why would you go with CopperWeld and not straight copper?

CopperWeld works great for wire antennas due to AC skin-effect... the current travels thru the copper and not the steel primarily.

Lighting is a DC charge.

FWIW, I prefer 3/4" copper pipe for antennas over steel on the shorter bands- gives you better bandwidth with the larger diameter conductor. On 20 meters, I get a 1:1 match over the entire band.