Cabling... your opinion?

[Pondracer]

Hi,

I have 3 maples in my yard that have been identified by an arborist as needing cabling. I was unfamiliar with the practice, but I researched your site and others extensively yesterday so I feel more comfortable in discussing it.

I am linking some pictures for everyone to look at and some of these will be fairly large. The first picture is the entire tree. They have recommended cabling 2/3 to 3/4 up the tree. The next three pictures are of the crotch of the tree and basically allows you to view it all the way around.

Entire Tree (56k)
Maple Crotch (223k)
Maple Crotch (145k)
Maple Crotch (379k)

My wife and I are members of the Morton Arboretum and we bought the house specifically for the yard. I understand how cabling could be neccessary, but whats interesting is that I can't recall seeing tree cabling either at the arboretum or anywhere locally. But we also just lost part of a birch tree (see my other post) to a split, and I would really hate to lose part of this maple tree.

Take a look at the pics and tell me what you think. The cabling method the arborist mentioned used aircraft cable (?). I have since emailed him on the specifics but haven't heard back yet. Once I do I'll have a bit more knowledge to work with.

My neighbors on the other side of that fence are great. But that tree does hang out over their property. One of my concerns is that in the future they may sell, and someone else may see that cabling and decide that means the tree is unsafe. While we love the house, I can see us moving in probably 5 years.

The money aspect of it is not as important as doing the right thing for the tree. But I want to make sure this is a smart practice, and not just the latest fad in caring for trees.

Thanks for providing this forum and opportunity to have so many qualified people review my situation.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Aircraft cable is NOT an accepted material for tree cabling. The U-clamps that are used aren't designed for the on and off shock loads that tree cables are expected to survive. I've seen some aircraft cables installed using swedges which could be OK if they're installed correctly.

There is an ANZI A300 specification that covers tree cabling and bracing. A copy of the standard or the Best Management Practice book is available from the International Society of Arboriculture. The Morton Arb may have copies too.

There are non-invasive dynamic cabling systems that are available. Many companies can install them. You should contact Kramer Tree or The Care of Trees.

 

[Old Monkey]

I personally am against it in most circumstances. Silver Maples can get quite large and don't have the most reliable wood. Reduce the weight on those spars with good thinning cuts in the upper canopy. It looks to me like it has been overpruned down at the bottom and in the interior but barely touched in the canopy. I'd want to see a climber up in that tree, making mostly pole pruner cuts. Cabling just allows the tree to get bigger than it should be able to and doesn't replace the need for trimming.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

When you only have a chainsaw as a tool, everything is a removal

Aren't we supposed to be doing what we can to save trees? If any tree that isn't liked is cut down there won't be any trees for the next generation of arbos to care for.

Do you guys have any idea who the Morton's were? Does the name J. Sterling Morton ring a bell? If not, google him.

 

[NeTree]

Just cut the darn thing.

Don't listen to those tree huggin' hippies.

 

[clearance]

Trignog- of course I'm with you. Sad to see this site is infested with tree huggers that want to save the trees regardless of cost (lives, property). They go on and on like tree are irreplaceble. I talked about this attitude here with my buddy at work (who is i.s.a. certified, always climbs w/spurs). He laughed and said "fek, saw it down" That is it, if the tree bothers you, worries you, is going to always need work, saw it down. Tom really nailed it when he said that there won't be any more tree for arbos. Great, guilt people into to paying to have their trees fagged out over and over instead of doing it right once.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

So...the next time you feel sick you're going to off yourself instead of taking care of yourself maybe including seeing a doctor?

You guys are clowns

Clearance, have you ever cabled a tree? Ever done maintenance on anything? Do you advise maintenance or only replacement? Chuck the truck when it needs an oil change or tires.

 

[NeTree]

Tom, surely you caught that my post was rhetorical?

 

[Old Monkey]

People come here for advice and they get one of our usual bickering matches. Clearance, why post if you have nothing new to add to the conversation? Badgering the "tree hugging" crowd must get old. Your job is important for all us electrical users. There is also a place for those who value trees and wish to trim and maintain them to extend their lives, improve their looks, all to the benefit of their owners.

 

[jason j ladue]

too bad. this tree has been "gutted". the middle and lower canopy have been overpruned, while the rest of the canopy was ignored. PONDRACER- can you post a couple more imqages depicting the entire tree. see if you can get a little tighter shot- more of a closeup. just based on this pic here is (kind of) what i would do. (btw, i think this work should definitely be done by a professional- of course i would say that...)
the upper canopy area (yellow oval) will also need a couple selective cuts to give balance for eye appeal mostly. the two red lines represent cuts on limb to the right, and should relieve enough weight to safen up that leader. this tree will need maintenance every few years or so. they grow quickly. best to keep the situation from ever getting out of hand.

 

[jason j ladue]

by the way. i used to live in chicago,recently. wrigleyville- sheffieldxclark. am trying to plan a trip back there to visit some friends this summer. having a little business to attend would certainly help me to justify the trip

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Pondracer comes here to ask a question about tree care and gets treated poorly. How does that reflect on the image of arbos?

If you want to crab about something, take it off-line.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The tree in question is a Silver Maple, it is a fast growing tree, but weak wooded. Living in the same area as the poster, I have a good handle on how these trees grow here. They are prone to breakage during storms, or under ice loads, but almost never at these weak looking unions at the base. This is why Sliver Maples get so large, their branches are like fuses, they break up high when loads are encountered, leaving the lower stem intact.

These trees almost always have this poor looking structure in the lower stem, it is their natural form. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, nor should you try.

If this tree were in my yard, and I could cable it for free (which by the way, I could ), I would not waste my time. It is not likely to fail at the lower crotch, in my opinion.

Many times, cables are installed for the owner, not the tree. This would be one of those cases. The problem with steel cables is they do not stretch. If there is a shock load, the tree can break at the point of cable attachment.

Clearance's comments are good here, because if you had five different tree services come to your house, one would probably make comments like his. Removals are easy money, and require much less skill and knowledge than preservation work. Also to some tree owners, trees are a nuisance and they would just as soon get rid of them all. For these folk, Clearance is their man.

Every tree is a potential hazard. Even a stump is a tripping hazard. 99% of trees that I look at have some type of structural flaw, hollow, crack, disease, or combinations of some problems, just like people. This is why Clearances comments are so ignorant sounding to any arborist who takes pride in his craft. Some trees need reduction, some crown cleaning, some cables, some fertilizer, some need chip beds, some need air spade work, some need chemicals, and others don't need anything, like yours!

 

[treeseer]

Cut it down and replant. That tree can't be more more than 30 years old.

Many of my clients won't wait 3 years for a good tree; I'd get a sad look if I told a 50-year old dude he'd have a nice tree when he was 80.

It's true that poor past pruning pushed the present problem. We should be stewards like Abel; we raise Cain when we are not our branches' keepers.

those crotches aren't that bad, tho pic #2 shows a mild-to-moderate defect.

Dynamic cable seems the way to go, an investment worth the benefit. The BMP's on cabling are only $5. a copy, the Standards $15. If the cabling contractor is not familiar with these standards, do not hire him. Tell him to spend the money and learn how to do it right. Or don't do it at all.
Jason's red lines show some extreme reduction that would create imbalance. A lighter touch out toward the tips, please, <25%.

Best idea yet is to hire Jason for a day to get all your trees just right. You'll learn enough to do much of the followup maintenance on your own, and have a healthy grove to enhance your quality of life and curb appeal when you sell in 5 years. (Or you'll like your trees so much you won't want to leave them :angel: I've hired over a dozen arborists I met through this forum, and learned a lot from all of them.

I was born in chicago-lawndale, but seldom go back. re wayward posts, guys, treat the urban logger comments like the court jesters in a Shakespeare play; a brief comic aside.

 

[Stumper]

The tree in question is a Silver Maple, it is a fast growing tree, but weak wooded. Living in the same area as the poster, I have a good handle on how these trees grow here. They are prone to breakage during storms, or under ice loads, but almost never at these weak looking unions at the base. This is why Sliver Maples get so large, their branches are like fuses, they break up high when loads are encountered, leaving the lower stem intact.

These trees almost always have this poor looking structure in the lower stem, it is their natural form. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, nor should you try.

If this tree were in my yard, and I could cable it for free (which by the way, I could ), I would not waste my time. It is not likely to fail at the lower crotch, in my opinion.

Many times, cables are installed for the owner, not the tree. This would be one of those cases. The problem with steel cables is they do not stretch. If there is a shock load, the tree can break at the point of cable attachment.

Clearance's comments are good here, because if you had five different tree services come to your house, one would probably make comments like his. Removals are easy money, and require much less skill and knowledge than preservation work. Also to some tree owners, trees are a nuisance and they would just as soon get rid of them all. For these folk, Clearance is their man.

Every tree is a potential hazard. Even a stump is a tripping hazard. 99% of trees that I look at have some type of structural flaw, hollow, crack, disease, or combinations of some problems, just like people. This is why Clearances comments are so ignorant sounding to any arborist who takes pride in his craft. Some trees need reduction, some crown cleaning, some cables, some fertilizer, some need chip beds, some need air spade work, some need chemicals, and others don't need anything, like yours!

This is one of those occasions when I have to/get to say," I agree completely with Mike." Now I'm going to stare at my coffee cup and wonder what the world is coming to.....

 

[MasterBlaster]

Aw, that ain't so bad.

 

[chipper]

I would think that the best plan of attack would be to thin severely and then cable it. The homeowner obviously likes the tree and wants to do what he can to enjoy it for as long as he can. Just my opinion.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

What would thinning accomplish?

 

[Stumper]

Aw, that ain't so bad.

True. Mike is actually a pretty astute fellow. He just has a high aptitude for initiating internet apoplexy.

 

[NeTree]

What would thinning accomplish?

The first part of a slow death.