mikecross23
ArboristSite Guru
Too remove or not to remove?
cameras in trees
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mikecross23
ArboristSite Guru
close up. . .
mikecross23
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Me. . .
mikecross23
ArboristSite Guru
Enourmous cavity, a coon came out of it and ran up the tree and jumped into an adjacent tree. Groundie started hollerin' which scared me to death just to find out it was over the critter.
Guy Meilleur
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Or maybe do something else? This 2-trunked tree looks like an obvious candidate for LIGHT reduction pruning. It looks like there are dead/declining branches at the top. A healthier tree would remain if height was reduced to the fuller canopy just below the present top. If that was done and sprawl reduced on trunk toward house, strain would be much less on the base.
Cabling also seems warranted. Lots of ways to lessen risk short of removal. It looks like a valuable enough asset to both landscapes to merit the maintenance. kb what's your take?
jblimbwalker
ArboristSite Operative
Freak of Nature
Matt Follett
ArboristSite Operative
Mikecross23
I agree with Guy, no reason to take that down if the client wants to keep it... Light reduction and cable would be the way to go, cobra I say, keep that reaction wood building... The tree has been around this long, it's workin pretty hard to keep itself up, just give it a tender helping hand
I agree with Guy, no reason to take that down if the client wants to keep it... Light reduction and cable would be the way to go, cobra I say, keep that reaction wood building... The tree has been around this long, it's workin pretty hard to keep itself up, just give it a tender helping hand
mikecross23
ArboristSite Guru
Too late.
It was a beautiful tree, but the owner was sure he wanted it gone. I made sure to mention that cabling was an option. He didn't like the maintenance route and opted for the take it off my mind route. The property is right around the corner from my house and it would have been great to be able to keep a close eye on it's progress w/ cabling and possible light crown reduction. I have yet had the chance to perform a real restoration job and honestly need to get more education before attempting anyway.Crazy pic jblimbwalker!!!!
-Mike-
mikecross23
ArboristSite Guru
Originally posted by Guy Meilleur
Or maybe do something else? This 2-trunked tree looks like an obvious candidate for LIGHT reduction pruning. It looks like there are dead/declining branches at the top. A healthier tree would remain if height was reduced to the fuller canopy just below the present top. If that was done and sprawl reduced on trunk toward house, strain would be much less on the base.
Cabling also seems warranted. Lots of ways to lessen risk short of removal. It looks like a valuable enough asset to both landscapes to merit the maintenance. kb what's your take?
The following pic is an edit showing what I would do if I was able to go about saving this tree. Am I on the right track? The yellow line shows crown reduction. Red line is the cable. Comments????
-Mike-
murphy4trees
Addicted to ArboristSite
I would have lobbied hard for the cable and recommended against the pruning... I've seen a lot worse looking crotches that held up for years... Yet because of the close proximity to two houses, a cable is highly recommended....
And Mike you're way too low on the cable IMJ.... 2/3 the height from the crotch to the tips is the industry standard and like to go even higher when practical...
When I was young and uneducated, I thought the lags needed big wood for strength, but now I realize it's all about the leverage..... Think of those leads as giant lopper handles.... Now here comes the Jolly Green Giant trying to open them up.... where would you want the cable????
I do not see a good reason to prune from the limitted perspective of the picture... I have argued on other posts that we arborists tend to think that pruning is somehow good for trees, very much as Guy's post would suggest.... I have argued that pruning is best practiced when applied to meet the needs of humans and rarely does it promote tree health or survival.... And that our industry has been slow to recognize this perspective, primarily because of the financial loss it creates..... I'd like to see the science that supports Guy's statement "A healthier tree would remain if height was reduced to the fuller canopy just below the present top."
I would agree that reduction would reduce the chances of the tree failing at the crotch, yet this would be unnecessary because a properly installed cable would bring the chances of such failure to near zero. To think that pruning will make this tree healthier in any other way is symptomatic of our human arrogance.... And of course the influence of the profit motive in such situations is undeniable....
And Mike you're way too low on the cable IMJ.... 2/3 the height from the crotch to the tips is the industry standard and like to go even higher when practical...
When I was young and uneducated, I thought the lags needed big wood for strength, but now I realize it's all about the leverage..... Think of those leads as giant lopper handles.... Now here comes the Jolly Green Giant trying to open them up.... where would you want the cable????
I do not see a good reason to prune from the limitted perspective of the picture... I have argued on other posts that we arborists tend to think that pruning is somehow good for trees, very much as Guy's post would suggest.... I have argued that pruning is best practiced when applied to meet the needs of humans and rarely does it promote tree health or survival.... And that our industry has been slow to recognize this perspective, primarily because of the financial loss it creates..... I'd like to see the science that supports Guy's statement "A healthier tree would remain if height was reduced to the fuller canopy just below the present top."
I would agree that reduction would reduce the chances of the tree failing at the crotch, yet this would be unnecessary because a properly installed cable would bring the chances of such failure to near zero. To think that pruning will make this tree healthier in any other way is symptomatic of our human arrogance.... And of course the influence of the profit motive in such situations is undeniable....
monkeypuzzle
ArboristSite Guru
What kind of tree is that Mike? Looks like China berry to me but could be Chinese Tallow tree.???????
I have seen a handfull of tallow trees that are nice enuff to keep around,but acording to most with a little tree knowledge they are best DEAD. Very invasive!!!!!!!
Hell, the U.S govt. is the reason the darn things are even here in America. Blame Ben Franklin, he did it. They do have value in the seeds as fuel oil, or biomass???? for seed oil. China did it years and years ago. many years!
Kinda like the wonder plant HEMP. The Govt. don't want nobody growing it cause it WOULD HELP America. But, Tallow IMO suck.
If it is a China berry, they are very brittle trees. Be carefull Mike did the BEST thing for that tree by wackin it.
I have seen a handfull of tallow trees that are nice enuff to keep around,but acording to most with a little tree knowledge they are best DEAD. Very invasive!!!!!!!
Hell, the U.S govt. is the reason the darn things are even here in America. Blame Ben Franklin, he did it. They do have value in the seeds as fuel oil, or biomass???? for seed oil. China did it years and years ago. many years!
Kinda like the wonder plant HEMP. The Govt. don't want nobody growing it cause it WOULD HELP America. But, Tallow IMO suck.
If it is a China berry, they are very brittle trees. Be carefull
Mike did the BEST thing for that tree by wackin it.mikecross23
ArboristSite Guru
MP,
I'm not sure what kind of tree it was, other than the easy removal kind. It was pretty though.
Murphy,
The pic doesn't show the small dead tips very well but there were quite a few poking out. Moving the cable up would make sense w/ leverage involved.
-Mike-
I'm not sure what kind of tree it was, other than the easy removal kind. It was pretty though.
Murphy,
The pic doesn't show the small dead tips very well but there were quite a few poking out. Moving the cable up would make sense w/ leverage involved.
-Mike-
Guy Meilleur
Addicted to ArboristSite
That's a lot of hooey. I charge the same per hour climbing or whatever and I'm always overworked so no profit motive in selling pruning vs. other svcs. What is this "human arrogance" stuff? NO error in knowing what works and doing it. Murph, trees do well without people, sure, but do better with good treatment.
Kneejerk Bombas
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I have to go wash my eyes out after reading that Meilleurian pro-prunning prattle.
murphy4trees's response hit the nail on the head. Very well said, Dan.
murphy4trees's response hit the nail on the head. Very well said, Dan.
Kneejerk Bombas
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Here's what I'd do:
Guy Meilleur
Addicted to ArboristSite
Better yet to stick your head back in the sand or back up some other dark place where the light of Shigo cannot illuminate the anti-pruning darkness. Better plug your ears so you don't hear bombast like this: "As people and trees get even closer, pruning will become more important for the health of the tree, and for our safety." Meilleurian prattle? No, Shigovian sense, p. 419 ANTB .
O and please tell kb that his proposed shortening of that doubletrunker may be afoul of ANSI 5.6.4.1: "Consideration shall be given to the ability of a species to tolerate this type of pruning."
\Published peer-reviewed stuff like ANSI, ANTB carries more weight than virtual engineering-based diatribes imho.
O and tallow tree or Sapium yeah it may be invasive but is that grounds for cutting them down or just not to plant it? A useful landscape tree in N FL.
Kneejerk Bombas
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Let's take a moment and put this in perspective.
What are the major health issues trees face?
My short list would look like this:
Nursery and/or planting practices.
Soil compaction and/or root damage.
Over trimming.
Fungal diseases.
Weather(drought, rain, wind).
Things may be very different in the south, where growing seasons are longer, and trees become top heavy or whatever, but in my forest, I would never, not ever, put under trimming down as a tree health problem.
In 20 plus years of tree work, I have seldom seen a tree that would have been saved or have its' health improved by trimming more. I have seen many, many trees that could have been saved by trimming less though. (I'm not talking about saving it from things like street clearance
)
If you ask if it is possible to improve a tree's health by trimming, I would say yes, it is possible, but it is not likely. My guess would be that 99.5% of trimming done, hurts trees more than it helps.
Guy suggests cutting out dead wood. Does that improve a tree's health? No, but it's better than cutting out living limbs, so if you must cut, take the dead stuff.
What are the major health issues trees face?
My short list would look like this:
Nursery and/or planting practices.
Soil compaction and/or root damage.
Over trimming.
Fungal diseases.
Weather(drought, rain, wind).
Things may be very different in the south, where growing seasons are longer, and trees become top heavy or whatever, but in my forest, I would never, not ever, put under trimming down as a tree health problem.
In 20 plus years of tree work, I have seldom seen a tree that would have been saved or have its' health improved by trimming more. I have seen many, many trees that could have been saved by trimming less though. (I'm not talking about saving it from things like street clearance
)If you ask if it is possible to improve a tree's health by trimming, I would say yes, it is possible, but it is not likely. My guess would be that 99.5% of trimming done, hurts trees more than it helps.
Guy suggests cutting out dead wood. Does that improve a tree's health? No, but it's better than cutting out living limbs, so if you must cut, take the dead stuff.
Toddppm
Addicted to ArboristSite
Wasn't this thread about cameras in trees?
Heres a picture of Brian helping me put a cable in my huge White Oak in the front yard. Survived the hurricane but not the rainstorm a few days later
Split at the base of two major trunks about 5 ft. off the ground, I'll have to get a pic of the base tomm. a little worried about this one, we put two cables in but snapped one lag twice, so I'll have to go back up again later when I get some better lags
Heres a picture of Brian helping me put a cable in my huge White Oak in the front yard. Survived the hurricane but not the rainstorm a few days later
Split at the base of two major trunks about 5 ft. off the ground, I'll have to get a pic of the base tomm. a little worried about this one, we put two cables in but snapped one lag twice, so I'll have to go back up again later when I get some better lags
monkeypuzzle
ArboristSite Guru
You are correct Guy. I like'em lots in the right setting. One shades the morning for a while that I keep looking nice at my house,but it's not my tree. Messy as shat that Tallow tree. Nice fall color,one of the best here in N Fl.
And I sure love the roots going every which a way in my back yard, they don't play nice. Little TT's are everywhere,sprouting as I type. I like SHADE so the tree stays. Love hate thing.
I don't know how to kill them once you cut one down.Dob it,drill it,
stick some dynamite in it. It may work.
When did you quit your job to become a full time arbo Mike? Few months I say. Simple removal, it is an invasive tree, I say wack it. Call it a easy money tree. gotta eat. I still think it's a China berry.
And I sure love the roots going every which a way in my back yard, they don't play nice. Little TT's are everywhere,sprouting as I type. I like SHADE so the tree stays. Love hate thing.
I don't know how to kill them once you cut one down.Dob it,drill it,
stick some dynamite in it. It may work.
When did you quit your job to become a full time arbo Mike? Few months I say. Simple removal, it is an invasive tree, I say wack it. Call it a easy money tree. gotta eat. I still think it's a China berry.
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