Can you use a higher oil/gas mix ratio in older saws?

[bcmktg]

I have been reading in this forum and some other places about the far superior lubrication provided by the new full synthetic oils compared to the oil my old Remington was designed to run on. I was wondering if it would be safe to successfully run a higher ratio than 16:1 without damaging the engine?

 

[PES+]

Yes you can

I can only offer personal experience here
REMEMBER your results may vary

The older call for 16 and 32 to one were based on using a non detergent straight weight motor oil. Modern 2-stroke oils all have additives that to a point eliminate the need for such high oil content.

I personally run 40 to one to 50 to one with semi synthetics in this vintage saws with no ill effects.

Actually mixing the newer 2-stroke oils at high oil ratios CAUSES problems in large deposits in the combustion chambers

I have a bit of experience with the non cages rod bearings and alot of what used to be considered standard practice turned out to be overkill.

We learn over time what we REALLY need

 

[blis]

I can only offer personal experience here
REMEMBER your results may vary

The older call for 16 and 32 to one were based on using a non detergent straight weight motor oil. Modern 2-stroke oils all have additives that to a point eliminate the need for such high oil content.

I personally run 40 to one to 50 to one with semi synthetics in this vintage saws with no ill effects.

Actually mixing the newer 2-stroke oils at high oil ratios CAUSES problems in large deposits in the combustion chambers

I have a bit of experience with the non cages rod bearings and alot of what used to be considered standard practice turned out to be overkill.

We learn over time what we REALLY need

Exactly...

 

[geofore]

new/old

I have been reading in this forum and some other places about the far superior lubrication provided by the new full synthetic oils compared to the oil my old Remington was designed to run on. I was wondering if it would be safe to successfully run a higher ratio than 16:1 without damaging the engine?

The mistake you make is in what you think the old saws were designed to run on. The oil, in the old days, was what was availible at the time in most areas. Any gas station had a strait 30w (non-detergent) oil in yesteryear. Today you can get a synthetic just about anywhere. It had more to do with what was availible, cheap and would work, not what was best. Few people ran synthetics, they were hard to find or did not exist. If you ran out of bar oil the 30w would work for bar oil in a pinch and not cost too much. Availibility at the time. If you had to wait 2-3 weeks for the synthetic oil to be ordered and delivered to the job you'd be out buisness.
What you have availible today, was not so easy to find 30-40 years ago. It didn't work as well but it worked well enough to get the job done, short of waiting for that special order to come in a week or two later.

 

[bump_r]

The mistake you make is in what you think the old saws were designed to run on. The oil, in the old days, was what was availible at the time in most areas. Any gas station had a strait 30w (non-detergent) oil in yesteryear. Today you can get a synthetic just about anywhere. It had more to do with what was availible, cheap and would work, not what was best. Few people ran synthetics, they were hard to find or did not exist. If you ran out of bar oil the 30w would work for bar oil in a pinch and not cost too much. Availibility at the time. If you had to wait 2-3 weeks for the synthetic oil to be ordered and delivered to the job you'd be out buisness.
What you have availible today, was not so easy to find 30-40 years ago. It didn't work as well but it worked well enough to get the job done, short of waiting for that special order to come in a week or two later.

Simply put, the old saws were made to TOLERATE crap mix oil, not made to REQUIRE it.

I have yet to see an argument where a "heavier" mix of 16:1 using 30-wt oil is beneficial in slow-churning, high-torque engines of yesteryear due to viscosity or shear strength versus the "runny" 40:1 or 50:1 mixes of today. Me? I'd feel more comfortable running modern mix in all my saws. Maybe oil 'em down a bit for insurance, but NOT to 32 or 16:1!

We run into the same argument with old military iron. The book says to run 85 octane gasoline and straight 30-weight engine oil. That does not mean they NEED lower quality stuff than what is available, just that it can take it if need be. View it as minimum requirements, not only acceptable.

 

[thomas72]

I have only been working on saws know for about two years, and most of them are saws from the mid 70's to early 60's. In my opinion when a saw was calling for 16:1 it was not just because the oil back then was not as good, but because the tolerances in the machined parts are different than today. Saws now are built with closer tolerances, thus need an lower oil to fuel ratio to the gallon. The saws from back in the day were machined to a lower tolerance and used the extra viscosity of the oil the make up the difference. Also the older saws depended on the thicker oil for cooling as well, since the saws were made to combust gasoline with such a high oil concentration the saws will run hot with the lower oil to fuel ratio. I have seen saws that overheat the old cast iron rings because someone thought they should just mix one bottle of stihl two cycle oil to one gallon. People may say you are just running it to lean, but the saws are not and if you richen them so they do not overheat the engine will not combust such a large amount of fuel you have richened it to.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

The saws from back in the day were machined to a lower tolerance and used the extra viscosity of the oil the make up the difference. Also the older saws depended on the thicker oil for cooling as well, since the saws were made to combust gasoline with such a high oil concentration the saws will run hot with the lower oil to fuel ratio.

bcmktg, just use a 40:1 or mabye 32:1 mix in your old homies and youll do fine and the saw will be werry happy.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

The saws from back in the day were machined to a lower tolerance and used the extra viscosity of the oil the make up the difference. Also the older saws depended on the thicker oil for cooling as well, since the saws were made to combust gasoline with such a high oil concentration the saws will run hot with the lower oil to fuel ratio.

bcmktg, just use a 40:1 or mabye 32:1 mix in your old homies and youll do fine and the saw will be werry happy.