Carpal Tunnel and White Hand

[Crofter]

I see very little on the forum here regarding this problem. Is that because we feel the newer saws anti vibratioin systems, heated handles etc., have the problem cured or is there some element of denial? I have vibration induced white finger but I have spent a lot more hours with a hand held grinder than with a chainsaw. The part I find most inconvenient is that it takes very little cold to shut down your hands. I just got rid of an old saw with no anti-vibe and am pleased with the feel of the new saws. How much of an advantage are the heated handles?

Frank

 

[treeclimber165]

I can get the same thing when it's cold and I'm running a saw for an extended period. But I can also get it from my steering wheel on long road trips (I think I've thrown a wheel weight on one tire). I just ignore it and try to keep going. Part of getting older, I guess. People get tired of hearing me complain about my back, hands, feet, shoulder, etc.

 

[Fish]

I hear those Orlando winters are a little rough.
Merry Christmas!!! Just kidding as usual.

 

[artwood]

Crofter,
I feel your pain! I suffer with CTS every day and really appreciate good anti-vibe. It's only a matter of time before I can't take it anymore and go under the knife. What is white hand?
Eric

 

[Crofter]

Treeclimber

I know what you mean about the steering wheel making the fingers numb. I had the carpal tunnels reamed on both hands and it cleared up most of the numbness. When there is some pressure on the nerves in the hand, any vibration added really compounds it. Running the backhoe where you are both gripping and getting vibration used to be very bad. The white finger or white hand can be there without the carpal tunnel problems and is damage to the micro capillaries caused by vibration. It causes a constriction that makes the fingers cold and numb. From what I have read some people are more likely to be bothered than others from the same amount of exposure.

Frank

 

[Art Martin]

Reynaud’s Disease (white finger syndrome) was quite common when I worked in the woods. Due to the vibration before any anti-vibration cushions were installed on the mainframe of the chainsaws. It was probably caused by the break-down of the small capillaries in the fingers.

Art martin

 

[Crofter]

Mr Martin;

You'll laugh at this but it was chainsaw vibration that started me smoking! I remember working in the bush with my father and his hands would go numb to the elbow from the old PM Woodboss saw we had and he used to get me to roll cigarettes for him. Daily Mail tobacco and Vogue papers. Of course I had to light them too and make sure they were going good before I passed them over to Dad.

Frank

 

[Stumper]

The anti vibe systems must be working pretty well. The latest literature I've seen re:Renaud's Syndrome is once again referring to it as a disease primarily of women. (No offense Crofter, 165 and others ) I think the return to old descriptions is probably indicative that the saws with anti-vibe are largely eliminating the damage. Carpal Tunnel and 'Tennis Elbow" are another matter since they are aggravated by gripping and repetitive motion.

 

[Jumper]

Numb Hands

I periodically get numbness in my hands, especially at night, and when driving; a CT scan and Xrays indicated I have a small "shadow" on the nerves within my neck due to a prior injury(I suspect the result of a bad parachute landing in 1992), in addition to degenerating discs throughout my back. No surprise there given what it has endured over the years. I thought it was CTS, but the doctor said it was not.

 

[Crofter]

When Renaud's Syndrome occurs WITHOUT a hisory of vibratory exposure, it usually is in women. Vibration induced capilliary damage has no such sexual preference though. There certainly is no comparison of vibration in saws now and 30 years ago. Most heavy equipment equipment is more user friendly too. Companies don't like paying out compensation. They deny there is any problem as long as they can though.

Frank

 

[Acer]

Originally posted by Crofter
Companies don't like paying out compensation.
Frank

Certainly true. I worked for one where they put pressure on all their staff to run their own chainsaws. So if anyone developed the disease then put a claim in for compensation, they could turn round and blame the operator for not maintaining the saw. I've met many people suffering from this condition, and some of them are quite young. One bloke I know now has to earn a living gardening - he can't use any hand tool with an engine on.

There are a few factors involved. Maintenance is important. A badly sharpened chain adds to the vibrations, obviously, but the rubber bushes are supposed to be replaced regularly. Someone told me every 6 months, which sounds excessive..my operators' manuals are no help here. They say the rubber bushes are subject to wear and tear, but they don't give a timescale for replacement.

Cold adds to the problem..one mate of mine has real problems on cold days (below 0 C), but more so on cold wet and windy days, even if it's above freezing, because that takes the heat from his hands very quickly. Gloves get soaking wet and become useless. He's been seen huddled round an idling chainsaw trying to get his hands warm. I'd be interested to know if anyone here uses saws with heated handles, if they make a difference..especially in relation to white finger.

The harder factor to adjust is exposure. I suppose loggers have a problem here, because they're on the saw all day. At least arborists have other things to do that don't involve vibration, like dragging and chipping. Now we have such sharp handsaws, like the Silkys, we don't have to use the chainsaw all the time.

Having said that, I don't think chainsaws are the worst for vibration. A lot of the people I know with hand problems do or did other things: one of these blames 15 years pushing a lawnmower around.

 

[Crofter]

Acer:

Chainsaws are not the only source for sure. String trimmers, hedge trimmers,sanders. lawn mowers, impact wrenches, hair clippers, packers, grinders, heavy equipment steering wheels and levers. The damage is cumulative and irreversable. Like hearing loss, by the time you start to notice it a lot of damage has been done. Apparently smoking compounds the problem too. I have a friend that was told to quit smoking or start losing his fingers. I would like to hear about how helpful the heated handles are.

Frank

 

[logcutter429]

It usually works on me about 3:00 in the morning, pain in my arms and hands are so bad i just got to get up, don't really bother me much when running my saw though, hands go numb alot, but iguess that what you get for running saws for 23 years huh.

 

[che]

I'm afraid <b>AGE</b> has alot to do with it also.

I used to be quite a 'seamstress'...now I can't hold a needle even long enough to sew on a button. Funny, now that I can't...turns out that my husband and kids do JUST FINE themselves.

Ibuprofen can help, if you can tolerate it....those hand/wrist splint thingees do well when the nighttime sessions get too rough. They're not comfortable enough to wear all the time though. It's a horrible pain to wake up with...you can also try to keep a pair of rolled up socks next to your pillow when you go to sleep....when you wake up in pain, if you hold them loosely in your hands when you try to go back to sleep it will hold your wrists in the right position....or does for me anyways.

Che

 

[logcutter429]

I'll try the sock thing to see if it helps, i'm willing to try anything at this point, thanks

 

[Jumper]

I agree with Che and the ibuprofin. Your doc can prescribe a stronger dose of 800mg but you can also duplicate that with the over the counter strength to a max of 3200mg per day. I take Celebrex and have found it to be a wonderdrug-easy on the stomach, with a once a day dose. Indocid works but makes me want to p*ke, and I also take allopurinol to keep my gout in check. Simply put, I take a lot of drugs, but they greatly affect and improve my quality of life-I am able to work at a physically active job, and I play hockey five times plus a week.

 

[Tony Snyder]

Without putting any fancy description to it, a lot of people just have trouble with weakness and arthritus brought on from age.

I had another old guy come in the other day with an 041 (hard nose bar, which hasn't got much to do with it) But he says, "This things gettin hard to start". No kiddin, 84 years old; I tried my best to talk him into something lighter and easier to start.

I did help his saw a little (fuel system cleanout), and he put a new fangled sprocket nose bar on, with chisel chain.

 

[JimL]

I don't get numbness, just soreness. I got arthuritis in my back, knees and hands.

Doc said my body was alot older than me
Part of the game...

 

[Wulkowicz]

I sat in the kitchen of a mobile home of a logger up in Nova Scotia, talking about clearcutting and such.

He was out of work because of CTS and had just had an operation that didn't go very well. He said he felt and heard a pop in the middle of the procedure, but no one said anything. He ended up in the waiting room afterwards for a few minutes and the nurse sent him home--no papers, no instructions, no after-care recommendations.

We sat in the kitchen and he stared at his bad hand. His kids played in the next room, separated from us by a blue frayed curtain. He looked at the hand that wouldn't work again and slowly turned it over, drawing his other fingers over the fading scars.

He was now slash. No other way to describe it. The same discards left littering the forests he cut. No one cared and a younger healthy guy took his place. We sat in awkward silence and I finally left.

In the background, I could the kids in their continued playing, but I knew he was still at the table, staring at his hands and wondering about the future for his children.

It was a long drive home. And I have no closure for those moments; no answers; no solace for a hard-working guy who trusted the system.

Slash.

An easy word with a new subtle definition. Woven through a memory I can't shake.


Bob Wulkowicz

 

[fun_chopper]

I have one of thoes jobs that inspire the development of CTS, and I had a doctor tell me once that using a finger strengthener device could help reduce the risk, 10 years later I am doing well with no signs of CTS, and my fingers and hands are pretty buff! I found this thing at a store that sells guitars, its pretty cool. I read into this a little and the theory is that the mucles will take the majority of abuse, and it will shelter the joints, ligaments, and bomes form the repetitive abuse. I am not sure how it works with chainsaw vibration I guess we shall see in another 10 years!