Carpal Tunnel and White Hand

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Wulkowitz;

That is very dramatic; lots of skillful, but negative emotional imagery. Sounds like you are practising to be either a writer or a mortician. LOL ! There are coping methods such as Che. and others have suggested. The anti inflamitory drugs reduce swelling of the tendons that travel through the carpal tunnel in the wrist. This reduces pressure on the nerves that causes the pain, like hitting your funny bone. I have had very sucessful surgery on both wrists. Some doctors have more experience and finesse than others. Like any other purchase you want to do some research and consider the options. In the meantime don't commit suicide; it's not as bleak a picture as Bob paints. Lol!

Frank
 
Lots of good reading here at Arboristsite English Comp 101.

Numbness???

Slash???

Darn good reading!

If my hand is the only thing that turns white, it is a good day.
Is this a comment on Canadian health care?
Or just some practice with the family thesaurus?
 
Originally posted by Fish
Lots of good reading here at Arboristsite English Comp 101.

Numbness???

Slash???

Darn good reading!

If my hand is the only thing that turns white, it is a good day.
Is this a comment on Canadian health care?
Or just some practice with the family thesaurus?

I did not think "numbness" was a very fancy word. Can you suggest another? Speaking from recent experience, I can say that Canuck health care is not without its problems, but I will take it over any other system out there thanks.
 
Some people are more affected by the same exposure than others, and this also seems to be true for hearing loss. I wonder if there is any common factor at the micro capillary and nerve endings. If you were prone to have one would you be likely to have the other (white hand and earing loss)

Frank
 
Originally posted by Crofter
Wulkowitz;

That is very dramatic; lots of skillful, but negative emotional imagery. Sounds like you are practising to be either a writer or a mortician. LOL !

There are coping methods such as Che. and others have suggested. The anti inflamitory drugs reduce swelling of the tendons that travel through the carpal tunnel in the wrist. This reduces pressure on the nerves that causes the pain, like hitting your funny bone.

I have had very sucessful surgery on both wrists. Some doctors have more experience and finesse than others. Like any other purchase you want to do some research and consider the options. In the meantime don't commit suicide; it's not as bleak a picture as Bob paints. Lol!

Frank

Frank, the only way to write is to practice. So, I do it anyway without reference to what I want to be when I grow up.

Sitting with Ernie, and talking about pulping and what it meant for his life was a very sobering experience for me in that encounter. Pulping paid all his bills for 22 years and left him just enough money to do a few extra things. Now, he had some slip-shod surgery and was turned out the door to figure out what to do in his new retirement. Should he go in for job training and learn programming? Should he apply for the dole and wait until they dump him from that too?

I noticed a cynicism in the previous posts and questions about who really cared. That's what I wrote about.

It's good there's a little anti-vibe improvement on the horizon, but it comes from the threat of costs and lawsuits, not because manufacturers were socially or ethically worried about building up piles of slash like Ernie.

My point was that Ernie was now indistinguishable from the debris he left in the forests. All the new saws and steroids meant nothing to him.

My perspective was a relatively young man sitting in a trailer, looking at his hands. He never saw it coming.

It is also a more bleak picture then I could ever possibly paint. I got to walk away, reached easily into my pocket and got my car keys. Ernie has to figure out some new way for the rest of his family's life.


Bob Wulkowicz
 
Bob I agree 100% with your position, I guess I was more quibbling about style. It is true that industry doesn't make changes out of benevolence. Only when they see it is going to cost them money, do they grudgingly make changes. I know a lot of people are anti- union, but they have done a lot towards alleviating unhealthy working conditions and educating workers to demand consideration. The problem is that many in this industry are individual operators or small businesses that pretty well have the conditions dictated to them: FIFO (fit in or f...k off).
Changing occupations is no easy thing either as you point out. I had some involvement with programs to retrain large numbers of the 6000 miners displaced when the Uranium mines here closed. A few of them adapt readily but many have developed work styles and experience that is hard to redirect. I do feel though that the average worker is better informed about the bigger picture and this trend will improve. 20 years ago forums like this did not exist. A lot of possibilities and food for thought gets paraded here and as Fish points out , if it ain't informative it sure is entertaining.

Frank
 
BWALKER

I don't thingk the corporations are out to '' screw" the workers, but I believe they put their interests, their bottom line, first. Do you enter a business arrangement with the premise that the other party is protecting your interests or do you do your own research? I seem to remember you suggesting on occasion that manufacturers were not above creating their own reality. Have you had a change of heart?

Frank
 
Cofter, I was just throwing a sarcastic barb towards Bob. Good natured of course. In regards to your last comment. Yes, corporations dont always think of there workers like the should. Thats why things like osha, epa and unions have a place. Although I know of a few cases where the unions exploit people more than the companys these days. Over all I think most companys are good to there employees. These days exploytation goes over like a lead balloon.
 
I wasn't trying to start a fight over Canadian health care, but just
exploring the guist of the post from Bob. Whether Canadian
or American, life is not fair, and the rich will not nicely take care
of those that work for them. The struggle of class/money will
always be with us, and the different approach of governments
that attempt to regulate such will always be fodder for our
contempt.
The freedom to discuss these topics is a fruit of our current
system of government. I did not want to start a pissing
contest on which nation has the best health care.
In reality, they both probably suck, but hey, it could be worse!
 
"We argue, not that I may triumph over you, or you over I, but that by discussion we may arrive at a more perfect truth." Socrates

Sometimes we step on each others toes a bit but we are all after the same thing. Individual and collective knowledge: the more we have, the less likely others can take advantage of us.

Frank
 
Originally posted by bwalker
Cofter, I was just throwing a sarcastic barb towards Bob. Good natured of course.
</b>

b,

If you do indeed have a good natured side, please rotate it into the light so we can all see it.

<hr>

<b>In regards to your last comment. Yes, corporations dont always think of there workers like the should. Thats why things like osha, epa and unions have a place.</b>

Yup, corporations are artifically created people--and thus allowed all the constitutional rights of the merely fleshed rest of us. It used to be that they were immortal, continuing through successive management generations and time, but WorldCom, Enron, and now United, put a fast set of brakes on that delusion.

The classic battles were once companies screwing their employees; then they started banging their customers; next bolder, they started boinking their stockholders, and finally, sticking it to their government--like moving to Bermuda to skip taxes.


<hr>

<b>Although I know of a few cases where the unions exploit people more than the companys these days. </b>


Uh, could you take the time to name one? There's a problem in rebreathing one's own air all the time; you lose track of reality. Push something other than a turgid generalization out into the sunlight

<b>Over all I think most companys are good to there employees. These days exploytation goes over like a lead balloon.


Many companies do treat their employees pretty well, but they're on the endangered species list. The unions, the EPA, and OSHA were all created as a result of excesses and real observable damage to the public and the working stiffs.

Exploitation is the backbone of free enterprise. And perhaps you can show me where it isn't

I'm a blue collar guy who spent my life in Chicago, where my hands were just as good a tool as my mind--and I had the good fortune to learn that at 20. Because of a strong union, I was able to tell a dumb, dangerous employer to drop dead, and still get a job the next day.

I couldn't buy those lessons of independence and self-realiance anywhere today.

And I'm still good-natured too.



Looking forward to the next launch of the cliche' catapult,


Bob Wulkowicz
 
Bob, I agree with most of your points.(cant believe I said that)
Think about this though. Who are Enron, Untied, and Worldcom? The answer is you and I. We are the stock holders via our 401k, union pensions, etc. We are the ones that demand stock prices the go nothing but up regardless of who gets screwed or how shortsigthed such gains are. Seems to me like everyone has a get rich quick mentality nowdays. This might be one of the ills of capitalism. That being said marxism isnt any better. Both abuse the individual. I guess the point is governments of men are allways destined to failure in the long run. History bears this true. That being said the system that least abuses the individual is a limited goverment, free market system. If you disagree with me on this last point. Make a suggestion.

Uh, could you take the time to name one?
Bob, One guy comes to mind when I made this comment. He is a steel worker in Gary. Being a chicagoan I am sure you know about that town the town. Anyways, The short of his problems is he suffers from massive exposure to heavy metals. I am talking about nasties like chromium, and cadmium in his tissue at levels that makes docs shake there heads. The union didnt go to bat for the guy because he wasnt a commitee mans son. Much like your acquantance "slash" this man is truely a spent specimin. Where was his safteynet? What did his dues buy for him except to line some lazzy slugs pocket?
 
Originally posted by bwalker
Bob, I agree with most of your points.(cant believe I said that)</b>

Wow, I never expected that... I'm embarrassed.

<hr>
<b>
Think about this though. Who are Enron, Untied, and Worldcom? The answer is you and I. We are the stock holders via our 401k, union pensions, etc.

We are the ones that demand stock prices the go nothing but up regardless of who gets screwed or how shortsigthed such gains are.</b>


That's not true. I have never seen an ethical survey produced by employers or corporations asking us what the moral posture of their business should be. They've never asked me who they should hurt or stiff--or leave alone.

We are, in fact, the screwees in most of this. It used to be that they screwed us individually; now, we have the collective shafings that reach into pensions, health plans, and our electric bills, with all sorts of unimanaged consequences.

WorldCom et al., involved the collapse of agencies and laws that were supposed to be the guardians of the great national trust we called our economy. What's outrageous is not so much that it happened, but the incredible amout of lobbying money spent so they can keep on doing it.



<b>Seems to me like everyone has a get rich quick mentality nowdays. This might be one of the ills of capitalism. That being said marxism isnt any better. Both abuse the individual.

I guess the point is governments of men are allways destined to failure in the long run. History bears this true. That being said the system that least abuses the individual is a limited goverment, free market system.

If you disagree with me on this last point. Make a suggestion.</b>



I think the real evil is the bureaucracy, not the label it happens to have at the time. After a while, every bureaucracy loses sight of its original mussion and becomes self-serving. Its people get shallow and usually greedy in the little ways they can, which then translates into the larger behavior of the full group.

Label it Marxism, Socialism, Republicanism, Democracy or Monarchy; it never matters after a while. Free enterprise is the frenzied manipulations of many little and big bureaucracies intent on getting bigger and harvesting more wealth for themselves. They is the extractors; generally, we is the extractees.

I've faced that old, "Why don't you do somethin' about it?" all my career. So far, I've been pretty good at providing meaningful alternatives, but I have no illusions about what kind of stage one has to climb on in trying to change the complexities of economies and justice.

Let's be honest and say it's yet another chicken or egg thing. Where does the stink really come from? The bureaucracies, or the people inside them?

<hr><b>


Bob, One guy comes to mind when I made this comment. He is a steel worker in Gary. Being a chicagoan I am sure you know about that town the town. Anyways, The short of his problems is he suffers from massive exposure to heavy metals. I am talking about nasties like chromium, and cadmium in his tissue at levels that makes docs shake there heads.

The union didnt go to bat for the guy because he wasnt a commitee mans son. Much like your acquantance "slash" this man is truely a spent specimin. Where was his safteynet? What did his dues buy for him except to line some lazzy slugs pocket?



I don't exempt unions from having the stink of losing sight of why they evolved and who they were supposed to protect. It's the same thing; after a while...whatever might have been noble gets submerged under the boils and sores of greed and self interest.

In my third month as a naive apprentice, I stood up at a union hall microphone asked asked why we should vote on a dues increase without anyone explaining why. I said the members should be shown what the expenses were, so we could make an informed decision. The Business Manager sent some people over to 'find out who this punk was."

The increase was voted down that evening. It showed up again the next month, replete with charts and handouts. It passed, as it should have, but there were lessons all the way round.

I learned the remarkable power of a single voice; they learned, never take anything for granted; and the level of information provided for meetings thereafter got permanently pushed up a notch.

My writing about Ernie as slash, or standing up to fight against the injustices for the Gary guy, are all part and parcel of the same lesson.

I feel the obligation to speak up for little people who can't have a loud voice. My fuming about censorship here is my anger at arbitrarily snuffing out anyone's voice.

Ernie is just literate enough to get by. His speech would be halting; his prose uninteresting and clumsy. No newspaer is going to pick up his story and bring some magical solution. He's slash.

Now multiply Ernie by the hundreds of thousands who got, and still get, carpel tunneled, chromiated, mangled, mashed, and granted an occupational disorder for the rest of their lives. That's a lot of slash,

I can't work those scales. I'm too funny looking and callused--and too close to the age of wanting to nap.

So, I don'r have a grand suggestion, I simply stick to keeping my thumb in some bureaucrat's eye ay any given moment, or trying to write with some principle and purpose about our common frailities and stupidities--still maintaing a belief in our potentials and triumphs.

If more people do that, in their own way and time, the bureaucracies are in trouble; the death of a thousand cuts..But, what you said earlier is true, and as Pogo muttered, "We have seen the enemy, and they is us."



Ethics and morals become all soft and pretty misty when we look in the mirror.



Bob Wulkowicz



PS: And for those who dislike my use of slash as human debris, please submit your own substitutes that capture both despair and injustice. I'll forward them to Ernie and the guy in Gary for their approval.
 
Bob W. I am not going to disagree with anything you say; I've lived some of the angst you speak about, both as a participant and as an interested observer.

But, I have to say, the depths of despair in your imagery is a bit too much. My left hand is somewhat crippled, and the thumb hangs useless, but I can still make music, I can still revel in the sunrise, or enjoy the sweetness in my sleeping children's breathing. My wife still loves me, even if I make a mistake.

I take nothing away from the plight of your friend Earnie, but he has YOU, he has his family, and when all is said and done he has himself. The first step will be immensely difficult, the next almost so, but one day Earnie will be stronger than the man who has not suffered.

And that's a good thing.

Keep writing here, Bob...you're good at it. But allow some of us to open the shades once in a while and let the sun in.

Thanks for listening.
 
Okay guys Do you guys know who you are practically quoting?

BF Skinner ... Beyond Freedom and Dignity
 
While what Bob and I have discussed may sound somewhat like Skinner I doubt either of us would have much to agree with him on. Where not most of his ideas discredited? I dont remeber much about him. Must have skipped psych that day.
 

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