Chain dulls quickly. What did I screw up?

[Hobby435ii]

I have been cutting down a Mugo Mugo Pine tree/bush. I am having a problem with the chain getting dull very fast, like 10 cuts through 4" thick branches.

I'm not putting a lot of pressure on the bar, and the engine isn't bogging down. I start out geting 1.5 inch curls, but end up getting 1/8" dust. The wood isn't dirty, but cutting through a crotch will quickly dull the chain. I'm not hitting rocks, nails, etc. The wood has been off the tree for less than 2 weeks, so still wet inside.

I get as much 'sharp time' cutting the stump out of the ground - at ground level! I'm getting into damp mud when I do that.

I'm using a Husqvarna 435e II, with a Pixel X-Cut SP33G, .325 semi-chisel chain. I have the appropriate Husky sharpener kit (I think) for that chain. When I use the guide roller tool, the top plate doesn't have any undercut. I (thought I) hand-filed an undercut in yesterday (see the pics), and cutting today was no better. I filed a LOT off the rakers, using the Husky tool. And the chain didn't self-feed any harder than when using the guide. The chain cuts straight, no pulling to one side.

I had problems with the oiler at first, and the bottom of the links wore a lot. Now I'm running Pennzoil 20w-50 with a dash of Liqui-moly MOS2. I use this on my street cycle chain, and believe it lubricates better due to getting into the crevises easier than thick, sticky oil.

I have a replacement chain, and it's somewhat sharper, and also has a LOT more undercut on the top plate. That undercut is flat, so a round file won't get there...

I am really pleased with the saw. Follow the directions, and it starts right up. I am running Husky XP oil at 40:1, and have the high-speed fuel ratio a little rich. I don't care that the saw won't run 13,500 rpm, I run it at part throttle, 9,000ish, where peak HP is supposed to be. Peak torque is at 6300 (per husqvarna.com/nz/products/chainsaws/435-e-series-ii/967651301/). Do a google search for husqvarna 435 "Torque, max. at rpm" to find the page. I'm surprised it's that low... It won't bog down unless I seriously abuse the saw. The plug is darker than a perfect ratio, but not oily.

 

[Hobby435ii]

 

[Clyde85]

Are you cutting near a dirt road or worked field? If so it could be fine sand or dirt in the bark. I cleaned a fence along a gravel road once and had to o sharpen the chain 5 to 6 times per tank of gas just from the dirt and sand off the road in the bark of the haw thorn.

 

[buzz sawyer]

First chain pics need more gullet and are not sharp - I'm assuming these are from the poor performing chain. Maybe holding the file at too much angle? Looks like they've run into some dirt somehow as Clyde85 suggested. Trees growing in windy, dusty conditions will pick up dirt in the bark, especially in crotches. You're using the best chain type for this application. Last pics looks good - match the old teeth to these.
Bar oil is sticky because it has tackifiers so it doesn't just sling off the chain at high rpms. As for RPMs, you should be running WOT and control the cut speed with pressure (slight) on the bar - let the chain pull the bar through the wood. WOT results in more cooling from fuel and the flywheel fan.

 

[Clyde85]

Also the discolored section of the top of your top plates along your cutting edge should all be gone for your tooth to be sharp as it was explained to me when I first started.

 

[Clyde85]

Maybe you are not holding the file quite level with the top plate of the tooth, and maybe a little to much angle.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

From what I see the set up is a mess and way off. If you have not been sharpening chains for more than fifty years then you will need to go through a learning curve like all of us had to at one time or other. Your rakers are too high. Rule of thumb for many of us is to at least take one or two strokes off the rakers at every other sharpening or at every sharpening. If your rakers are high then the cutters skim over the wood mostly just getting hot. Too low and your in for a shaky ride. Get a section of new chain to look at as you start to file so you can duplicate. Here there are so many sharpen threads that they compare to oil threads. Thanks

 

[Hobby435ii]

Are you cutting near a dirt road or worked field?

It's been suburbs since the Mugo was planted.

 

[Hobby435ii]

First chain pics need more gullet and are not sharp - I'm assuming these are from the poor performing chain.

Correct. By gullet you mean a deeper arc on the side plate? That's not possible with the Husky guide and file...

I am unable to get the leading edges sharper with a file. I suppose I could use a sharpening steel. I've already done this chain about 10 times, and I'm at 95% of my best, IMO.

 

[Hobby435ii]

Your rakers are too high.

But my rakers are lower than in your picture... And while it's not easy to see in the second pic here, they are lower in the old chain.

I just had a thought... There's a bigger gap in my old chain, so a smaller angle of attack, so to speak.
I used the Husky guide to cut the rakers down. Even filed a couple thousandths off the top of the -guide- I filed so hard.

I'll try dropping them down some more.

New chain:

Old chain:

 

[Hobby435ii]

Guys,

Thanks for your replies. I spent a few hours yesterday reading posts on chain sharpening, and watching videos.

I've got the correct ~30* angle, which is all I'm in control of, as long as I use the Husky guide. It's the correct file size for the .325 chain, and I can easily feel the drag on the file jump higher when the cut is 'full', if you know what I mean. It gets to a point where the file seems to bite harder, and the cut is then full from one edge to the other.

I started out using the all-in-one Stihl file, and that cut the top plate almost 90* to the direction of travel - a flat plane, not an acute angle. I then tried hand-cutting, but I cut into the side plates, and completely below the top plate. I thought I had it nailed when I got the Husky guide, and it cuts great right off the workbench. It just dulls too fast.

It dulls *really fast* when I cut at a crotch. It seemed to me that the bark was very abrasive. But the Mugo was huge - a globe of growth 12' across, and wind wouldn't blow through it, even if some sand came off the blacktop road that was 20' away from the Mugo.

If the top plate needs even more cutting before I stop, I'll be filing 15 strokes. I guess I can try that, too.

 

[trains]

your chain is not sharp to begin with, looks like you might have the wrong roller guide for your chain, as there is very little hook, compare it to the new looking chain.
Next, yes the cutters have damage, so there is something like dirt or rocks in what your cutting.

ensure you have the correct guide for the pitch of your chain and correct file size, hole in the roller guide side is correct file size for the guide, and file the tooth back beyond the damage, and follow up with the rakers, I think you will be much happier with how it cuts.

I think the .325 is silver, the 3/8 is blue, and pico is black in the roller guides, but they should have numbers stamped on them anyway.
let us know what you have, and do the file guides sit properly on the chain with those annoying anti kick back bits on the chain ?

 

[Hobby435ii]

OK, I dropped the depth gauges down 5 strokes, increased the gullet, and started hand-filing the cutting teeth. I needed to get the file down more in the gullet than the Husky guide was letting me get. It also looks like I could use a smaller file than came with the kit. With my glasses off, and a headlamp on, I could see that the top plate was rounded over on many links. Hopefully I can get some relief tomorrow...

 

[Hobby435ii]

Hey, trains. Yup, I have the silver guide, stamped 0.325 and 4.8.

I noticed that one of the two depth gauges was higher than the other. When I cut them down yesterday, I filed them all from one side. Since there's play in the links, the far side gauge could flip away a bit, and didn't get as much cut off.

This has been a very interesting experience.

 

[ucm]

There are two different .325 roller filing guides from Husqvarna. One for regular .325 and one for .325 pixel. Both are silver if I remember correctly. You may have the wrong one. Also, I have found that I need to use a slightly smaller file size that what comes with the guide in order to get a decent hook on tooth. Last, you need to file down the gullet without the guide. Keep the same angles on your file but give it a bit more pressure down and back on your strokes. The guide does not let you get low enough to clean out the gullet. After you file the gullet down, use the roller guide. Check the tooth every 2 or 3 strokes when sharpening, the files can take off a fair bit material with each stroke.

Just my .0002 worth. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Hobby435ii]

OK, I ended up sharpening the chain without the guide. I opened and deepened the gullet, cut the rakers down some more, and got a more acute angle on the leading edge of the top plate. The Husky guide holds the file way too high. Even without the guide, and with the teeth cut back a lot, the file is too large to cut an arc into the sideplate.

Although these pics don't show the top plate cutting edge that well, it's sharper than my prior pics. I cut through a 3" branch, and the chain held its edge this time. I then attacked the root, and once I hit the mud, the chain lost its edge, as expected. This stump is now cut back to ground level, and I will aim to cut it down another 8". I hope I can cut wedges through it, to do that.

I'm sure you are wondering why I didn't just rent a stump grinder. Well, the wife and I used a lopper to cut down 90% of this thing. I used my chipper/shredder to grind that up for organic matter in the garden. I've always been self-sufficient, and with my health where it's at, I get 10-15 minutes of 'work' before I have to rest. On a good day, I can do that twice. I wouldn't have been able to use the grinder to finish the job in a day. And more importantly, I'm having FUN. I can't persue my other hobbies any more, but I can get out in the sun and cut a few branches and have a blast.

I have the Husky guide that -should- be appropriate for this chain, but it just doesn't sit low enough on the chain. I think I will get an even smaller round file, and see how that works.

Thanks to all of you who replied. Even though there are many sharpening threads, I don't think any of them would have pointed me to ditching the guide, and hand-filing.

 

[Hobby435ii]

There are two different .325 roller filing guides from Husqvarna. One for regular .325 and one for .325 pixel.
...

I agree with everything you said!

I spent an hour last night trying to find a pixel-specific guide. The one I have says it is for .325 pixel chains. It's an H30. It absolutely positions the supplied 3/16" file too high to cut the top plate sharp.

I think I can now sharpen without the guide. I watch the top plate leading edge to know when I'm done. At least on this almost worn-out chain.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[mncutter]

Looks like you’ve learned a lot about sharpening in this process. I’m just starting my journey on that path, haven’t sharpened my own chains yet. If you have a sawzall, (reciprocating saw technically I guess) that may work well for cutting roots in/near the dirt without going dull as quickly as your chainsaw.

 

[Philbert]

If you have a sawzall, (reciprocating saw technically I guess) that may work well for cutting roots in/near the dirt without going dull as quickly as your chainsaw

And, if you ruin a Sawzall blade, you are only out a couple of bucks. Like using disposable blades in a utility knife.

Philbert

 

[old guy]

You can not keep a chain sharp cutting stumps in that much dirt, not for one cut!