Chain - pulling sideways

[Qatanlison]

I thought it would never come to this, but it seems I don't know everything there is to know about chain-sharpening. Bucked some oak and hit something that made a few cutters dull. Filed them and the corresponding ones on the other side down - and the saw pulled way to the right.
After that I filed every tooth to equal length and did the rakers at the same time - no difference. I'm starting to put the blame on the bar - but it seems all right.
Now, am I dead wrong when assuming that when the cutters pull right, standing behind the saw, it's the cutters on the left side that has the more bite? Filing the rakers at the right side should remedy it.

I really appreciate any tips and thoughts!!

/Ola

 

[Stumper]

Pulling right should mean cutting more on the right side= more aggressive right cutters.

 

[Qatanlison]

This is how I figured: Imagine a chain with just two cutters, one on each side with the left one more aggresive. When it has "dug" its path then comes the right cutter leaving its path a little higher. When the left one comes again its raker is riding much lower than the right one because of its more aggresive cutter making the bar tilt towards the left - thus the cut moves to the right?

Am I missing something?

/Ola

 

[Stumper]

Ola, I do not know. I think that the chain chases the kerf but maybe it works the way you describe. It has been a long time since I had problems with cutting crooked.





I just checked one of my books-it says that the cut follows the sharper or longer side. That doesn't prove it absolutely but I think you reasoned things a step too far.:angel:

My advice would be to resharpen the whole thing.

 

[ricksvar]

Just the opposite,if the rakers are lower on the left(compared to the right side rakers) the cut will bare or move to the left of a straight cut.The opposite would be true if the rakers were lower on the right,the cut would move to the right of a straight cut.

At least that's how I figure it,sorta like what Stumper said.

Rick

 

[Crofter]

If you look at it from the angle of severing the end grain it looks different than thinking which side of the chain sinks dow further with each cutters passing. Severing the end grain to establish the side of the kerf takes at least 3 times more energy than splitting the side grain to lift the chip. So the chain will be pushed away from the side with the duller cutters (or blunter side plate angles) when cutting off blocks. Ripping may be different.
If you have used it running to one side for a while, your bar rails may have to be dressed up so the chain is being presented squarely to the wood. Also it is possible to wear down the tie straps more on one side of the chain than the other but this takes real determination. Hope this helps.

Frank

 

[geofore]

pulling

Before I start, what chain are you using? I have to wonder how much metal you took off the chain if the rakers needed to be lowered with one sharpening. Sharpen the chain one more time and if it still cuts to one side check the rails to see if you didn't spread them on one side. Worst case, you sharpened one side to the right angle, say 35* and the other is a few degrees out, say 30*. If you spring for a new chain and it cuts strait, your sharpening needs some help. If it still cuts to one side your bars rails are spread and need to be tightened up. One thing you should not over look is your file the right size for the chain? Are your eyes as good as they were when you were younger? I find myself picking up the magnifying glass to get a better look in the past year.

 

[Qatanlison]

Crofter, your info bring another light to how the chain is working. At least for me. I really find it an interesting point. Today I'll measure each and every cutter and raker to establish what's wrong. I'm not that used to checking the bar though...

Geofore, the chain I'm using is an Husky H42/ oregon 73LG.
The chain has its cutters filed to the same length within .05"
I used a file-guide the last two times just to bring the cutters to a default state. The file is a 5.5mm or 7/32". I got the bar with the saw and it shows some heavy use. How do I tighten the rails? I'm getting a new bar and chain this week but I just got the saw and have a very nice big old oak-trunk to turn to fire-wood...

Thanks for all info and for showing interest in helping me out.
Appreciate it.

/Ola

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

It's the bar.

 

[tony marks]

and the mystery continues.
i can really make a chain drop thru the wood. but about half way thru the chain,,while its still cutting fast.
its likely to cut to one side a bit.
not a biggee for me ,,but if i was doing lumber it be more important i guess.
sign me ,,somebody who still got lots to learn ,an glad of it..

 

[ricksvar]

Take a little off the top plates(cutters)on the right side of the chain.This will reduce the raker depth setting on the right and more aggressive cut of the right side cutters.Just tweak them,don't take too much off or get too aggressive with your file.

Make a cut to see if the pull to the right has corrected itself or been reduced.If need be,tweak them again.

It could be the bar but by your comments it was cutting straight till you hit something with the chain.If the bar is worn you would likely have noticed the pull to the right your first few cuts or before you hit something.

Rick

 

[Stumper]

Since you just recently got the saw I think that most of us were assuming that the bar was nearly new. Now that you have outlined how you sharpened and that the bar is worn I agree with Mike-it probably is the bar. There are lots of techniques for truing bars. The simplists is the file holder with 90* angle holding flange made by Pferd. You can easily do it with a belt sander or by drawfiling by hand. You just need to have the metal removing implement at 90* to the flat side of the bar and remove metal form both rails untill they are even and square. Tightening the groove can be done with a hammer. With a spacer fitted in the groove, you lightly peen the sides of the rails (do this before dressing the rails with file or sander). Also, a little roller camming device sold by Bailey's works very well for closing the rails. Realistically the most important thing is getting them ground square.

 

[glens]

Individual tooth length is pretty much immaterial in my experience, Ola, as long as each tooth is properly sharp and it's depth gauge is properly set for it.

Assuming you've got the teeth well formed, I vote for the bar as well.&nbsp; It may be that the rails are uneven and you can check that by setting a carpenter's square over them and alongside the bar and holding it up to a light.&nbsp; It may also be that a thrown chain was simply reinstalled and run hard for an extended length of time before (if ever) the drive tangs were checked for burrs.&nbsp; If the groove is worn wider down inside, even though it appears to be the proper width at the surface, the drivers <i>will</i> wallow around, even if the rails are square.&nbsp; Even more so if the working corners, top plate side angles, and/or side plates aren't up to snuff.

Glen

 

[Qatanlison]

And now the mystery unfolds; It was the bar. As ricksvar assumed, It cut perfectly straight ere I got into the gravel and spoiled the bite in a few cutters. When I wiggle the chain it leans much more on the one side than the other. Perhaps the bar lost its temper thanks to lack of chain sharpening in its former life and then got worn down faster on one side. When I got the saw it was newly sharpened with a grinder - very dull... I'll try to file it square, or I I'll bury this bar and wait for the new one. Sorry for not mentioning the state of the bar earlier, but it has been a very information packed thread to me, thanks everyone!


/Ola

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

That sounds good; but back to if it was the chain....

The push off theory from the duller side plate makes some sense; but; if one side is cutting faster than the other, would not the faster side cut more length, the slower less so the culmination would be to arc/pivot towards the slower cutting side.

Whether from difference in the aggressiveness of the tooth, difference in amount of bite allowed by the depth gauges on either side, or the amount of deepr bite from 1 rail higher than the other etc.?

Another bar check is the amount of rolled over metal on the side of the bar from chain passing in rails; as it gets wider than the kerf, can give different effects from starting to cut a log, changing as the bar sinks into the wood.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Most saw repair shops have a bar rail dresser, which is a simple tool to grind the top of the bar rails flat. My guy charges me $2 to do it. It works so well I bought one.
Like Stumpy said, you can file it, ifin your good.

 

[Qatanlison]

TreeSpyder, that's pretty much my theory. I think I'll try some different "bad" sharpening methods on a new bar just to come up with what's really happening for each and every fault in the chain, different raker-hights, top-plate angles and so forth. Should be an interesting test...


/Ola

 

[Crofter]

Quatanlison and TreeSpyder: you feel the opposite effect will prevail compared to what Risvar and Stumper do regarding which way the chain will veer in the cut if depth guages are lowered more on one side of an otherwise symetrical and sharp chain. Which opinion would check out. Any others want to make a guess or tell us which way it will cut?

Frank

 

[Fish]

When I start pulling to the right, I call 911 and take 2 asprin!

Then I sharpen the chain correctly!

 

[geofore]

bar

Stumper has this covered with a spacer in the groove and peen it on a flat surface (anvil), this works for me. I'm just not fast enough with the replies. I once had that problem with the chain flopping, didn't notice the bar was a .060 instead of a .050 when I put it on the saw but it let me know in a hurry.