Chain Questions for New Saw

[max2cam]

Re: chisel chains

Originally posted by Tree Machine
Square chisel I would take to mean square ground, where you would use a special square file to sharpen it. Full chisel would mean the tooth that comes to a point-point and Semi-chisel, or round-ground chisel would mean the tooth curves over; a 'round' point.

My "point" exactly.

 

[Crofter]

Still a problem with cutter type terms

Semi-Chisel chain has a small radius blending top plate into side of tooth. Years ago there used to be a chain called "chipper" and at that time was even more rounded on the top outside corner. Semi-chisel lies somewhere between the old chipper and chisel chain in shape. Since semi-chisel chain has no defined corner to the tooth it is never square ground or filed; attempting to square file it would leave a notch at the intersection of top and side of tooth.

Chisel tooth chain has a sharp outside corner where top plate and side intersect, Like a figure 7 when viewed from the front. Some people also refer to it as "full chisel" to differentiate it from semi-chisel, but that shouldnt be necessary.

Chisel chain can be round ground or round filed and is then "round chisel" . It can also be square ground or filed and is then "square chisel"

Frank

 

[Tree Machine]

Chisel chain can be round ground or round filed and is then "round chisel"

That would be full chisel filed with a round file. Round ground would be ground round with a grinding wheel. Semi chisel would be round-toothed, filed, or ground round, with a round file, or grinding wheel. Are you calling these both"round chisel" chains? -TM-

 

[glens]

No.&nbsp; Read his lips.&nbsp; There are "Chipper", "Semi-Chisel", and "Chisel" tooth configurations (visit <a href="http://www.sawchain.com/a_series.htm">Carlton's 3/8 chain page</a> for a view of all three shapes -- the page takes a while to load, but web site design isn't their forte).&nbsp; "Round Chisel" is the "Chisel" tooth which has a sharpened edge profile produced either with a rounded-edge grinder or with a round file.

Glen

 

[Tree Machine]

round and round with round and square

And since you can file a semi-chisel or a full chisel chain with a round file, they are both round-chisel chains, whether a semi, or full chisel. What I'm understanding, is that a full chisel chain can be sharpened with a square file, thus converting a round file full-chisel to a square chisel chain. This can not, however, be done on a semi-chisel chain. -TM-

 

[glens]

I guess I hadn't intended on getting into a quibble over this, but "semi-chisel" chain, filed or ground round, is "round semi-chisel", but in this case "semi-chisel" is sufficient to describe it because as has been pointed out it should never be found filed or ground square.&nbsp; The same can be said for "chipper" chain.

In complete contrast to that we have "chisel" chain, which when filed or ground round is known as "round chisel" and when filed or ground square is known as "square chisel".

Three types of cutters, two which will only be found sharpened with a round-profiled tool so their names are sufficiently descriptive, and one which can be found sharpened with both round and square-profiled tools and thus has the two descriptive modifiers "round" and "square".

This leaves us with:<ul><li><font color="red">chipper</font></li><li><font color="green">semi-chisel</font></li><li>round <font color="blue">chisel</font></li><li>square <font color="blue">chisel</font></li></ul>Glen

 

[max2cam]

Originally posted by glens
I guess I hadn't intended on getting into a quibble over this, but "semi-chisel" chain, filed or ground round, is "round semi-chisel", but in this case "semi-chisel" is sufficient to describe it because as has been pointed out it should never be found filed or ground square.&nbsp; The same can be said for "chipper" chain.

In complete contrast to that we have "chisel" chain, which when filed or ground round is known as "round chisel" and when filed or ground square is known as "square chisel".

Three types of cutters, two which will only be found sharpened with a round-profiled tool so their names are sufficiently descriptive, and one which can be found sharpened with both round and square-profiled tools and thus has the two descriptive modifiers "round" and "square".

This leaves us with:<ul><li><font color="red">chipper</font></li><li><font color="green">semi-chisel</font></li><li>round <font color="blue">chisel</font></li><li>square <font color="blue">chisel</font></li></ul>Glen

I agree, but think this is a bit more descriptive:

<ul><li><font color="red">chipper</font></li><li><font color="green">semi-chisel</font></li><li>round-ground <font color="blue">chisel</font></li><li>square-ground <font color="blue">chisel</font></li></ul>

 

[cbfarmall]

Bailey's sells chain as:
semi-chisel
round chisel
square chisel

--Just as glens listed. I guess they don't bother with chipper.

Maybe the lesson to be learned from this discussion is to be familiar with the different types of chain, the terms involved and to know what you're looking at.

Reminds of a guy at work who insists on calling his air intake a header. Then again, he only knows what he reads on the internet and I doubt he's ever changed a spark plug in his life.

Chris B.

 

[Crofter]

I think Chipper chain is pretty much obsolete. It had a very big round radius compared to the small radius on todays semi-chisel chain.

I looked over the antique saws at the Plowing Match and there sure used to be some grizzly looking chains on the old saws. I can remember Dad hand rivetting a chain on the doorstep and one of the goats came along and swallowed his little envelope of rivets. No presets in those days! In some things we are making progress.

Frank

 

[glens]

Originally posted by max2cam
I agree, but think this is a bit more descriptive:

<ul><li><font color="red">chipper</font></li><li><font color="green">semi-chisel</font></li><li>round-ground <font color="blue">chisel</font></li><li>square-ground <font color="blue">chisel</font></li></ul>

Sure, in part.&nbsp; But don't forget to mention the round and square-<i>filed</i> categories for chisel, and to be fair, the chipper and semi-chisel should then be classified as filed or ground.&nbsp; Each tooth type and sharpening geometry used all share the possibility to (basically) be sharpened either by grinding or by filing, which is why I felt comfortable factoring out those commonalities.

Glen

 

[Tree Machine]

Chains

I think all the contributors have done an exceptional job getting to the nucleus of this topic.

I've always ordered full-chisel chain, which we all know to be 'chisel chain'. Is terming it 'full-chisel' redundant? I like the terminal feel, the testosterone infusion that the word 'full' gives to a sort of blah 'chisel'.

I'm just being funny. -TM-

 

[jokers]

Glen

You are just kidding about the further delineation of types, ground vs filed, aren`t you? Who really cares how a chain got that way unless it is important to a specific discussion, and then it will be noted. Furthermore, in almost all instances where the proper terminolgy will be vital, as in ordering new chain, filed will not be an option, hence it will all be ground "whatever".

Tree Machine

Full Chisel is a valid trade recognized name the specifies a square cornered chisel chain rather than a small radius chain like 95vp or semi chisel. Chipper chain is such an oddity anymore that it doesn`t warrant discussion in terms of what chain is available.

Other than the specific notes that I have made in this post, I would say that you guys have done a pretty good job of defining tooth styles and clarifying what square chisel vs round chisel is.

Russ

 

[glens]

No I'm not kidding Russ.&nbsp; If I asked you what chain you were running on that saw I'd expect you to tell me "square filed" or "square ground" (either of which would be sufficient, really, for chisel since I'm sure you wouldn't so treat any other tooth type) or whatever it may be, even if it was "a new loop of 33RS" which would signify "full" chisel, factory ground.

But that's just you and me talking.&nbsp; If I were talking to my dealer about getting me a fix, I'd use one of the four terms I'd initially listed.

You're kicking the sand into the wind today...

Glen

 

[jokers]

Hi Glen, I wasn`t kicking sand this time. I already stated the relevance of stating square or round in a specific conversation, just think it`s wasted breath when talking to anyone who isn`t a saw freak like the members of this board.

Russ

 

[glens]

Sorry, Russ.&nbsp; I thought that was sand.&nbsp; And I agree with you, ultimately and completely, on this one.

Glen