Chip and bucket truck mods

[pdqdl]

Ain’t no 88 Chevy one ton that weighs 11,000lbs leaving the assembly line if that’s what you’re suggesting? Lol

I had a couple that weighed right beneath 10k, and they had light duty dump beds. A heavy duty dumper would get there quick, especially if you added 4wd.

To be honest, I didn't pay too much attention to what the description was. I saw an 11k GVWR, and I thought that was kinda light. Maybe Chevys are a bit lighter than the Fords.

 

[serdie]

I had a couple that weighed right beneath 10k, and they had light duty dump beds. A heavy duty dumper would get there quick, especially if you added 4wd.

To be honest, I didn't pay too much attention to what the description was. I saw an 11k GVWR, and I thought that was kinda light. Maybe Chevys are a bit lighter than the Fords.

Our 2000 K3500 GMC dump truck with me in it weighs 8200 lbs. it’s a big block gas truck.

 

[ClimberBusinessman]

So a quick google search reveals an approximate 100lbs difference between the big block Chevy and the small block. Most of which could be negated if I went with aluminum heads, surely.

Looks legal to me as long as the registered weight is as you describe. Since you're keeping the total registered (and actual) weight under 26k, you can tow more than a 10k trailer (in your case, you have a 14k rating ) for the trailer. Definitely don't pull that trailer behind a 26k rated chip truck unless you have a CDL. The most you'd be able to pull behind a 26k rated truck is a 10k rated trailer if you want to stay under cdl.

 

[ClimberBusinessman]

Yes, whatever, but do you see anything illegal in this plan? I get that a diesel would be heavier on the scales, but honestly, nobody has ever put us on a scale in our limited travels anyway.

I could always go with the built 454 like originally planned anyway. That would certainly keep it cheaper (and lighter). I just know that lift trailer can put up a fight towing it.

As far as I'm aware, you can certainly do that. Just be aware that that increasing the empty/curb weight eats into your legal towing/payload capacity. Your 11,000 gvwr truck probably only weighs in at 6,000 pounds empty, and you might increase it by 500 pounds or more by going with a diesel, so that will eat into your towing and payload capacity. The main thing, at least as far as I'm aware, is that you don't exceed the sticker ratings and that both your sticker ratings and actual/scale weight is either under 26,000, or under 36,000 if you do the 26k truck plus 10k rated trailer method.
Here's a brief paraphrase/summarization of a few of the rules if you wish to remain in compliance without a CDL:

1. The registered truck + trailer combined weight as well as scale weight total needs to stay under 26,000 if towing a trailer above 10,000 pounds.
2. Never exceed 26,000 registered or scale weight on the truck.
3. Never exceed 10,000 pound registered or scale weight on the trailer if the total combined weight is above 26,000 (i.e. a 20,000 pound truck can have a maximum 10,000 pound trailer since the combined total is 30,000 pounds, which is above the 26,000 pounds).

 

[pdqdl]

As far as I'm aware, you can certainly do that. Just be aware that that increasing the empty/curb weight eats into your legal towing/payload capacity.

Ahhh... Not really. While it certainly eats into the rated capacity, the legal capacity is unconcerned by how what the GVWR of any vehicle is.
There are FIVE ways to get an overweight ticket:

1. You can exceed the allowable weight limit on any road or structure. This is your gross weight.
2. You can exceed the allowed weight on any axle, even if you are not over the gross weight restriction. In this case, the axle rating is very important, and determines your ticket.
3. You can exceed the allowed weight on any tire, even if you are not over the gross weight or the axle weights. In this case, the tire rating is very important,
4. You can exceed the allowed weight on a road or structure according to the "Bridge Law". This is somewhat complex formula that requires trucks of a certain weight to not be too short, effectively putting all the weight in ome spot on the bridge.
5. You can exceed the licensed weight. This is a simple matter of not buying a plate heavy enough to allow your gross vehicle weight to pass down the road legally.

Your 11,000 gvwr truck probably only weighs in at 6,000 pounds empty, and you might increase it by 500 pounds or more by going with a diesel, so that will eat into your towing and payload capacity. The main thing, at least as far as I'm aware, is that you don't exceed the sticker ratings and that both your sticker ratings and actual/scale weight is either under 26,000, or under 36,000 if you do the 26k truck plus 10k rated trailer method.
Here's a brief paraphrase/summarization of a few of the rules if you wish to remain in compliance without a CDL:

1. The registered truck + trailer combined weight as well as scale weight total needs to stay under 26,000 if towing a trailer above 10,000 pounds.

I have never seen any CDL regulation that remarks upon the actual weight of the vehicle. Got any links that support that statement? (It makes perfect sense to me that some state might include such language, however)

1. Never exceed 26,000 registered or scale weight on the truck.
2. Never exceed 10,000 pound registered or scale weight on the trailer if the total combined weight is above 26,000 (i.e. a 20,000 pound truck can have a maximum 10,000 pound trailer since the combined total is 30,000 pounds, which is above the 26,000 pounds).

Again, I've never seen any CDL license regulations that refer to a scaled weight. It's all about the GVWR for trucks, and GCWR for combinations.

 

[tree MDS]

So check this out.. upon further thoughts, it appears I may have an under cdl lift towing combination right here on site!!

Last time I added the numbers up I came up with my old Chevy towing the (14,999lb) lift trailer as a few hundred pounds over. But it had been in the back of my mind that my old man had me register it as heavy as possible back in the day. (don’t ask me, I was 23). But I had a sneaking suspicion it was over manufacturer’s recommended gvw. Took a flashlight, camera phone and some searching to find the original gvw which I had carefully taped off when we painted the cab way back when. Haha, check out the math on this one!!

14,999 gvw for the trailer and 11,000 for the truck!! 25,999lbs total combined gvwr (or whatever). Lol.

I have been meaning to restore this old school bad dog forever, but now I have a reason!! Thinking maybe even a diesel conversion instead of the 454 I have that I planned on building. Pretty ****ing cool if you ask me!!
View attachment 1010131View attachment 1010132

Registration says the truck weighs 4900lbs lightweight. I just wanna re-register it at the 11,000lbgvw it’s supposed to be at, then build the heck out of that little truck, 454 built, etc. I think it’ll be even more handy than it already is.

I have been through all these equipment journeys, will be nice to go back to the beginning and start with the real, first dog,, give him his do. A hot rod Chevy one ton dually dump. I think it is time.

It’ll be fun too, and that’s the most important thing anyway.

 

[pdqdl]

What are you calling the "registration" ?

I always thought that the registration was the pink receipt you get after you license a vehicle. I don't recall that those even mention the GVWR. I'm pretty sure that will be listing your licensed weight.

I don't recall ever seeing them list the empty weight. Looking one of mine up...

Nope! Missouri truck registration doesn't even mention how much I'm licensed for. Other states might, however.

 

[ClimberBusinessman]

Ahhh... Not really. While it certainly eats into the rated capacity, the legal capacity is unconcerned by how what the GVWR of any vehicle is.
There are FIVE ways to get an overweight ticket:

1. You can exceed the allowable weight limit on any road or structure. This is your gross weight.
2. You can exceed the allowed weight on any axle, even if you are not over the gross weight restriction. In this case, the axle rating is very important, and determines your ticket.
3. You can exceed the allowed weight on any tire, even if you are not over the gross weight or the axle weights. In this case, the tire rating is very important,
4. You can exceed the allowed weight on a road or structure according to the "Bridge Law". This is somewhat complex formula that requires trucks of a certain weight to not be too short, effectively putting all the weight in ome spot on the bridge.
5. You can exceed the licensed weight. This is a simple matter of not buying a plate heavy enough to allow your gross vehicle weight to pass down the road legally.

I have never seen any CDL regulation that remarks upon the actual weight of the vehicle. Got any links that support that statement? (It makes perfect sense to me that some state might include such language, however)



Again, I've never seen any CDL license regulations that refer to a scaled weight. It's all about the GVWR for trucks, and GCWR for combinations.

By combined weight, I meant approved/registered combined weight ratings (GCVWR).

 

[661Joe]

View attachment 1007710View attachment 1007711

Hey guys. Thought I'd see if you guys have any thoughts on some potential trucks mods/builds I'm considering.

I recently bought 2 trucks to expand our crew and capabilities:
f650 dump truck with 16/ bed
f750 bucket with 75' elevator boom
I have both at a fabricator shop now to clean them up.

In addition to this we already have:
f650 60' forestery bucket
f350 12' Dump (almost always overloaded with chips)
F450 flatbed with mini skid ramp, tool boxes, and transfer tank- to haul dump trailer. Sometimes use to haul both mini skid and tractor simultaneously.
f350 crew cab flat bed. often in tandem with 16' ultility trailer to haul mini skid and stump grinder.


Originally I had thought I would just turn the 650 into a 16' chip dump truck and use the f750 as is but then I started thinking...

I have one CDL driver on our team, who is also the main bucket guy. I found out the f750 weighs 25,600 empty. So I could classify it as 26k under cdl if my drivers have air brake endorsements. I don't think I'd do this since 2 guys wet will weigh over 400 pounds in the cab. I'm not sure if I've ever seen an elevator truck under CDL. But it was a thought...

THAT SAID, I had an idea. Tell if I'm crazy or not.

What if we take the 3000 pound or so 11' chip bed off of the f750 and weld it to the f650 dump? Then we could create a mini skid platform on the dump between the cab and the dump bed.

Then we could install a light weight flat bed on the f750 bucket where the chip box was previously. I could leave the dump hoist underneath and could use it to haul plywood- or even put some small log bunks on the side to haul the occasional saw log. Without the chip box I'd have at least a couple thousand pounds to play with under 26k.

So basically, we would have a sick chip truck with mini skid platform AND an under CDL elevator truck that could haul light loads.

Does that makes sense? What do you guys think? Have you guys done any similar projects?

How you like that 75ft truck? I just bought one will be here tmr at 6pm can’t sleep why im on here. Haha mine weighs 23000# just the truck and is air brakes as well. Definitely a b with air until the big trailer gets hooked to it. I also want to add ( ANY VEHICLE used to make money for a company is technically a commercial vehicle it really depends we’re you live. You can get in a 90000# big rig drive all over the states as long as your not makeing money with it all it takes is a regular drivers license. Once you make money your in a commercial vehicle. Then your weight/combination will determine your license needs. If you get pulled over with no cdl or over weight and know you don’t have a class A if you wanna LIE tell them it’s personal use watch how mad they get….

 

[pdqdl]

That's a plan that won't work. You would get pulled over constantly for not displaying your permits and DOT number, as well as your signage. Then with no permits and signs, they gonna make you open the cargo area up for inspection.

As far as I know, you still need the class A license, whether or not you are driving it commercially. When you take the test, nothing in the process asks you whether or not you are driving it commercially.

 

[661Joe]

That's a plan that won't work. You would get pulled over constantly for not displaying your permits and DOT number, as well as your signage. Then with no permits and signs, they gonna make you open the cargo area up for inspection.

As far as I know, you still need the class A license, whether or not you are driving it commercially. When you take the test, nothing in the process asks you whether or not you are driving it commercially.

Wrong I won’t get into a pissing match but if you own the rig and your claiming to not use it commercially they can’t do anything about it I promise you that. Also just because it’s a Commercial vehicle doesn’t mean you have to have DOT numbers. There’s a lot that Pertain specifically to what you are driving and what you were doing with said vehicle. The reason some of these rigs have (not for hire) on the side of them along with race car car haulers that have not for higher on the side of them is because they are not a commercial vehicle therefore they are not for higher therefore anybody with a standard drivers license can drive them. Just like my crane many people are not educated enough to understand that a piece of machinery that is classified as mobile machinery does not technically need a license plate it’s mobile machinery. Same with chippers mobile machinery. Bottom line is there is so many great gray areas that you should just get your clase A and get educated for your specific state remember I live in Michigan so take all of this with a grain of salt.

 

[661Joe]

That's a plan that won't work. You would get pulled over constantly for not displaying your permits and DOT number, as well as your signage. Then with no permits and signs, they gonna make you open the cargo area up for inspection.

As far as I know, you still need the class A license, whether or not you are driving it commercially. When you take the test, nothing in the process asks you whether or not you are driving it commercially.

And the reason they do not ask you if you are going to be driving commercially when you apply to get a CDL which is a commercials drivers license I think that’s probably why they don’t ask you. Not being a dick either I mean all this with the most respect towards everyone

 

[661Joe]

Call the state police department and ask them if I own a semi and I want to drive it Accross the country can I? Simple answer will be yes as long as it’s not used for profit. If your not makeing money with it it’s not a Commercial vehicle. Now if you have your company truck name dot number all that and get stopped and you should have a class a cdl then you are in the wrong. If you lied and said your truck your company but helping a friend out not using it for work and could prove that I bet you don’t get a ticket if that cop proves you was making money with it. Your ass is grass.

 

[pdqdl]

Yeah, but as I said before, you are going to get a personal talking to with every scale that is open. If you have commercial signage, then you will need that CDL. Without the signage, then they will pull you over every time to inquire where your signs are.

Now I don't know what they do to confirm whether or not you are commercial, but I'll bet you have a damn tough time convincing them that a 75' reach bucket truck with chipper on the pintle hitch at the rear is just your personal camper for a trip to the vacation property out of state.

 

[661Joe]

Yeah, but as I said before, you are going to get a personal talking to with every scale that is open. If you have commercial signage, then you will need that CDL. Without the signage, then they will pull you over every time to inquire where your signs are.

Now I don't know what they do to confirm whether or not you are commercial, but I'll bet you have a damn tough time convincing them that a 75' reach bucket truck with chipper on the pintle hitch at the rear is just your personal camper for a trip to the vacation property out of state.

I agree 100%

 

[pdqdl]

Wrong I won’t get into a pissing match but if you own the rig and your claiming to not use it commercially they can’t do anything about it I promise you that. Also just because it’s a Commercial vehicle doesn’t mean you have to have DOT numbers. There’s a lot that Pertain specifically to what you are driving and what you were doing with said vehicle. The reason some of these rigs have (not for hire) on the side of them along with race car car haulers that have not for higher on the side of them is because they are not a commercial vehicle therefore they are not for higher therefore anybody with a standard drivers license can drive them. Just like my crane many people are not educated enough to understand that a piece of machinery that is classified as mobile machinery does not technically need a license plate it’s mobile machinery. Same with chippers mobile machinery. Bottom line is there is so many great gray areas that you should just get your clase A and get educated for your specific state remember I live in Michigan so take all of this with a grain of salt.

ALL commercial vehicles that require a CDL require a Federal DOT number, providing they cross state lines. I don't know about intrastate, as my shop is a stone's throw from State Line. Pizza delivery cars? Probably not.

 

[pdqdl]

Call the state police department and ask them if I own a semi and I want to drive it Accross the country can I? Simple answer will be yes as long as it’s not used for profit. If your not makeing money with it it’s not a Commercial vehicle. Now if you have your company truck name dot number all that and get stopped and you should have a class a cdl then you are in the wrong. If you lied and said your truck your company but helping a friend out not using it for work and could prove that I bet you don’t get a ticket if that cop proves you was making money with it. Your ass is grass.

If driving a friend's vehicle? You would still get hung out to dry.

By your theoretical situation, that is a commercial vehicle, regardless of who is behind the wheel. It's license and insurance (and probably DOT#) all will stipulate that the guy behind the wheel better have a CDL.

 

[661Joe]

If driving a friend's vehicle? You would still get hung out to dry.

By your theoretical situation, that is a commercial vehicle, regardless of who is behind the wheel. It's license and insurance (and probably DOT#) all will stipulate that the guy behind the wheel better have a CDL.

My argument was a big rig with no information on it. It’s late I’ll look at this and reply more in depth tomorrow. But honestly bottom line if you own it and are not using it for commercial use then you can drive anything you want. If it’s sticker up then you might have a hard time proving your not makeing money with it.

 

[661Joe]

If driving a friend's vehicle? You would still get hung out to dry.

By your theoretical situation, that is a commercial vehicle, regardless of who is behind the wheel. It's license and insurance (and probably DOT#) all will stipulate that the guy behind the wheel better have a CDL.

Just looked you need to read my post again never said driveing the friends rig

 

[pdqdl]

If you lied and said your truck your company but helping a friend out not using it for work

I stand corrected on the theoretical scenario, but that doesn't really change anything.