City to pay $500K to man injured by flying log

[pdqdl]

I wonder what would happen IF, just wondering, IF those logs had all been chained together, tied or secured as one????? Maybe they would have not blew out????? Has anyone ever thought about doing it that way???????

No. Not a chance. They might have been restrained, but it's just not done.

After the tree hit them, the chains would be locked tight, and it would be a nightmare to get apart. The logs-as-a-shock-absorber technique is used so that we can crash trees to the ground without damaging the landing zone, thereby saving money by not wasting time blocking it all down. If we were to create a tangled mess of logs & chains, that would mitigate the benefit of padding the landing zone.

Besides, it might rupture a chain and send chain links flying like bullets, or maybe logs or log parts flying with the force focused into a smaller piece. Some things you don't do just because you know it's a bad idea. Some things you do because you don't know any better. Stacking the logs up under the falling tree would be one of them.

 

[pdqdl]

What a dumb, futile thing to do. Unless they have steel plates under those logs, that big boy is still going to destroy that road.

Not if you do it right.
I've dropped bigger trees than that onto sidewalks & driveways, and never hurt the concrete below. It's a matter of putting enough padding to spread out the load. If the materials are there to pad for the drop... Proceed. If not, better block some more logs down, or get a crane. A crane rental is still cheaper than a new driveway.

 

[Cricket]

I had a huge hard maple come down in a storm a few years back - landed right between my house and my horse fence. About... two and a half feet, maybe, where it broke off? Just a few smaller limbs on the house in two places - braced on those and the broken end.

After cutting off all I could without destabilizing it (pics of me running around on the roof on here somewhere), I jacked it up (train jacks are a wonderful thing), pulled it with a rope across the top of my conveniently located bullet trap (about 6.5 feet tall, made of stacked phone poles between two sets of three inch cast pipes) - and it bounced the top phone pole off the stack.

I knew it might - which is why I made everyone get the hell out of Dodge. I pulled it from across the bullet trap with a chunk of rope someone scavenged from a Coast Guard station, that they used to haul ships with - and I was a good twenty yards away - and behind the bullet trap to boot. And it came off beautifully (the flying phone pole was not a problem *because I'm super paranoid and ran everyone off*!)

I'm going to send that video to everyone who poo-pooed my insistence on safety measures.

 

[Philbert]

I'm going to send that video to everyone who poo-pooed my insistence on safety measures.

Post it here?

Thanks!

Philbert

 

[lone wolf]

I had a huge hard maple come down in a storm a few years back - landed right between my house and my horse fence. About... two and a half feet, maybe, where it broke off? Just a few smaller limbs on the house in two places - braced on those and the broken end.

After cutting off all I could without destabilizing it (pics of me running around on the roof on here somewhere), I jacked it up (train jacks are a wonderful thing), pulled it with a rope across the top of my conveniently located bullet trap (about 6.5 feet tall, made of stacked phone poles between two sets of three inch cast pipes) - and it bounced the top phone pole off the stack.

I knew it might - which is why I made everyone get the hell out of Dodge. I pulled it from across the bullet trap with a chunk of rope someone scavenged from a Coast Guard station, that they used to haul ships with - and I was a good twenty yards away - and behind the bullet trap to boot. And it came off beautifully (the flying phone pole was not a problem *because I'm super paranoid and ran everyone off*!)

I'm going to send that video to everyone who poo-pooed my insistence on safety measures.

Cool post it.

 

[camel2019]

Not if you do it right.
I've dropped bigger trees that that onto sidewalks & driveways, and never hurt the concrete below. It's a matter of putting enough padding to spread out the load. If the materials are there to pad for the drop... Proceed. If not, better block some more logs down, or get a crane. A crane rental is still cheaper than a new driveway.

the Company’s who do dress for my city pretty much have to use cranes to pull bigger stuff up I dont think they care much lots of nice straight sugar maple around here.

 

[Stihl User]

By MARA H. GOTTFRIED | [email protected]
UPDATED: October 20, 2016 at 8:11 am

http://www.twincities.com/2016/10/1...-for-man-struck-by-800-pound-log-outside-bar/



Delmer Fladwood never saw the 800-pound log careening toward him in St. Paul almost four years ago. The last things he remembers before it hit him on a winter afternoon in 2013 was leaving work, going to a neighborhood bar on West Seventh Street and stepping outside.

People had gathered to watch a St. Paul forestry crew cut down a massive tree across the street. Workers had removed the tree’s upper limbs and put them in the street to create a “crash pad” for the tree’s main trunk.

But when the tree toppled onto the logs, at least two of them flew across the street, striking Fladwood, then 65, in the legs, according to a lawsuit he filed against the city of St. Paul.

“I’ll never be back to normal,” Fladwood, of St. Paul, said this week. He suffered broken bones in both legs and a severed artery, leading to five surgeries and three months in the hospital.

“I’ve got titanium in both my legs. If you look at the X-ray, you wouldn’t believe all the breaks in them. My femur was just shattered like a tea cup.” The St. Paul City Council voted Wednesday to approve a $500,000 settlement to Fladwood, 69.

If Fladwood’s lawsuit had gone to trial, the central question would have been: Was the incident negligence on the city’s part?St. Paul City Attorney Samuel Clark calls it an accident.

“One of our city employees was standing right next to Mr. Fladwood, which underlines what an awful, terrible freak accident this was,” Clark said Wednesday. “It could have just as easily been one of our own employees. I think at this point everyone feels awful and is ready to move on and put this terrible accident behind the city.”

But Fladwood’s attorney said the city’s practice of using logs as a “crash pad” left spectators in harm’s way.

“I don’t think it would take a rocket scientist to figure out if a massive, massive elm lands on the logs in the street, you don’t know where the logs are going to go,” said Elliot Olsen. “… Here’s a guy who was a completely innocent bystander, he’s not an expert in taking down trees, he’s not the one who’s supposed to anticipate this is going to happen. The process the city used was sort of a ticking time bomb. It was only a matter of time before it injured a member of the crew or a bystander like it did here.”

St. Paul immediately made changes. Fladwood was injured on a Friday and all forestry workers met the Monday morning that followed “to review and strengthen the standard of securing the work zone for both traffic and pedestrian safety,” according to a 2013 email from St. Paul’s forestry supervisor.

The department stopped using tree debris “as a cushion for protection of paved surfaces” when cutting down large trees, according to the email, though St. Paul Parks and Recreation spokeswoman Clare Cloyd said that’s “still an accepted practice in the industry.” St. Paul now uses large steel plates to cushion a large tree’s fall, Cloyd said.

After the incident, forestry crews began using a form to document traffic and pedestrian safety in work zones. On high-traffic sites, they now assign at least one worker whose sole job is making sure pedestrians and traffic don’t get too close, Cloyd said. The city also purchased two-way radios and headphones for crews, for better communication.

The city reviewed what happened in 2013 and determined “no discipline was appropriate or necessary” for employees, Cloyd said.

Jan. 4, 2013, began as a normal day for Fladwood. The independent computer consultant finished his work and dropped by the Spot Bar at the corner of Randolph Avenue and Victoria Street. Fladwood arrived at 1:30 p.m., sipped a rum and Coke, then headed outside about 10 minutes later.

At least five other people were watching as the workers prepared to pull down the American elm, which the city determined had Dutch elm disease. The tree across the street from the bar was 60 feet tall and 4 feet in diameter and estimated to be 120 to 160 years old.

Fladwood’s lawsuit said city workers did not rope off the sidewalk near the bar or tell pedestrians not to stand there, but the city said in a court document “that it used a city employee rather than a rope to keep bystanders at a safe distance from the tree felling.”

When the tree was toppled and the logs flew, the same one that struck Fladwood hit or barely missed a St. Paul worker who also fell to the ground, according to the lawsuit. The city estimated the log that struck Fladwood was 7 feet long, more than 1½ feet wide and 826 pounds.

“I don’t remember anything,” Fladwood said this week. “I remember going outside and hearing a crack or something and next thing I knew, paramedics were there.”

Fladwood, who is a Vietnam War veteran, asked to be taken to the VA Medical Center, but paramedics told him he needed to go to a trauma center because of the severity of his injuries. He wound up at Regions Hospital. “When they lifted me off the gurney at the hospital, someone said my leg was bleeding like a faucet,” Fladwood said. An artery in his leg had been severed and Fladwood required emergency surgery.

Fladwood filed a lawsuit against the city of St. Paul in 2014, but the city responded in a court document that Fladwood “assumed the risk of being near the tree felling operation” and claimed official immunity. “The city’s argument was that the decision to use the ‘crash pad’ was protected by official immunity, which doesn’t deny that what happened to him was awful, just the city wasn’t liable,” said Clark, the city attorney.

But the Minnesota Court of Appeals ruled earlier this year that the facts of the case did not allow the city to claim official immunity. St. Paul filed an appeal with the Minnesota Supreme Court, which declined to take the case, and the city and Fladwood agreed to settle.

“The city refused to accept any responsibility, and we had to chase them all the way to the Minnesota Court of Appeals,” said Olsen, Fladwood’s attorney. “… They claimed they’re immune from it, but why should the city be treated any different than anybody else who’s done something stupid like this?”

Fladwood’s permanent injuries, pain and suffering, lost wages and medical expenses are far greater than the settlement amount, Olsen said, but state law sets $500,000 as the maximum amount a municipality can be liable for in a tort lawsuit.

Philbert

Easily avoidable had they prepped better before the fall.
Part of Job Safety is planning for failure and then taken steps to avoid that failure.
Meaning this: Thru experience and knowledge of cause/reaction you look for what can go wrong before it does and then establish a safe environment/method for the safe completion of the job at hand.
The more weight that is felling combined with high risk work environment(harm to persons & structure) requires more prep to avoid what we see in the video.
I would always instruct my guys that there are no re-do's = take time to prep area for the felling of a large trunk.

 

[Dave1960_Gorge]

I recently started a thread about how to keep people out of the work zone. It's one of the biggest problems I deal with on a daily basis. They walk and drive through my cones and lift up caution tape and come on in. When I jump on them they say they are just going home. I have. 200' rule on my job when applicable. I know I can't ask people 5 houses down to get out of their yard. But all operations cease when someone is in my work zone.

It looks like the tree was felled right toward the guy. We use brush for a pad but not logs. Logs will do as much damage as the tree itself. What's going to happen when a steel plate goes flipping down the sidewalk.

I agree that felling a big trunk onto a pile of logs on a street with targets nearby was a bad idea. You really don't want a high energy reaction if you can break something nearby (like a bystanders legs). Could have gone through the front door of the bar as well. A big pile of actual limbs and branches would have been better; tangled into a pile, maybe a small piece could have broken off and flew, but not a seven foot log.

Plus, its a city job -- why not chunk it down in 4 ft. pieces onto a pad you made out of old tires? Do you really save time dropping a 25 ft. trunk? That would be 4 cuts to get it down to around 10 ft. Maybe use a 066 or 046 with a 36 or 32 inch bar and sharp full skip square cut chain... what I have used on big removals. Shallow face and back cut for each piece would have taken about the same time as moving into position to cut the next one. If your chain isn't filed for optimal speed I can see just wanting to get your hooks off.

I was chunking down a dead grand fir once (chunks were perfect cylinders) and I hit one on the ground already; the piece I dropped (around 18 inches by 4 ft) somehow launched off one and went sideways around 15 ft., missing a big electrical box by a couple feet. No bueno.

 

[pdqdl]

... Do you really save time dropping a 25 ft. trunk? That would be 4 cuts to get it down to around 10 ft. Maybe use a 066 or 046 with a 36 or 32 inch bar and sharp full skip square cut chain... what I have used on big removals. Shallow face and back cut for each piece would have taken about the same time as moving into position to cut the next one. If your chain isn't filed for optimal speed I can see just wanting to get your hooks off.

I was chunking down a dead grand fir once (chunks were perfect cylinders) and I hit one on the ground already; the piece I dropped (around 18 inches by 4 ft) somehow launched off one and went sideways around 15 ft., missing a big electrical box by a couple feet. No bueno.

Some of us save a huge amount of time. Slicing up a horizontal tree is a whole lot easier and faster than making the same cuts on the standing spar.

• No face cut needed.
• No need to pull/push the cut section off.
• MUCH less strenuous, with easier positioning around the log.
• gravity doesn't help a horizontal chainsaw; it's even easier to lift a big saw to cutting height for a vertical cut than it is for horizontal.
• almost no risk of slips or falls, certainly no risk of cutting your safeties loose.
• If time is a constraint, a log laying on the ground can be cut up by several people at once.

 

[Shaun Bowler]

By MARA H. GOTTFRIED | [email protected]
UPDATED: October 20, 2016 at 8:11 am

http://www.twincities.com/2016/10/1...-for-man-struck-by-800-pound-log-outside-bar/



Delmer Fladwood never saw the 800-pound log careening toward him in St. Paul almost four years ago. The last things he remembers before it hit him on a winter afternoon in 2013 was leaving work, going to a neighborhood bar on West Seventh Street and stepping outside.

People had gathered to watch a St. Paul forestry crew cut down a massive tree across the street. Workers had removed the tree’s upper limbs and put them in the street to create a “crash pad” for the tree’s main trunk.

But when the tree toppled onto the logs, at least two of them flew across the street, striking Fladwood, then 65, in the legs, according to a lawsuit he filed against the city of St. Paul.

“I’ll never be back to normal,” Fladwood, of St. Paul, said this week. He suffered broken bones in both legs and a severed artery, leading to five surgeries and three months in the hospital.

“I’ve got titanium in both my legs. If you look at the X-ray, you wouldn’t believe all the breaks in them. My femur was just shattered like a tea cup.” The St. Paul City Council voted Wednesday to approve a $500,000 settlement to Fladwood, 69.

If Fladwood’s lawsuit had gone to trial, the central question would have been: Was the incident negligence on the city’s part?St. Paul City Attorney Samuel Clark calls it an accident.

“One of our city employees was standing right next to Mr. Fladwood, which underlines what an awful, terrible freak accident this was,” Clark said Wednesday. “It could have just as easily been one of our own employees. I think at this point everyone feels awful and is ready to move on and put this terrible accident behind the city.”

But Fladwood’s attorney said the city’s practice of using logs as a “crash pad” left spectators in harm’s way.

“I don’t think it would take a rocket scientist to figure out if a massive, massive elm lands on the logs in the street, you don’t know where the logs are going to go,” said Elliot Olsen. “… Here’s a guy who was a completely innocent bystander, he’s not an expert in taking down trees, he’s not the one who’s supposed to anticipate this is going to happen. The process the city used was sort of a ticking time bomb. It was only a matter of time before it injured a member of the crew or a bystander like it did here.”

St. Paul immediately made changes. Fladwood was injured on a Friday and all forestry workers met the Monday morning that followed “to review and strengthen the standard of securing the work zone for both traffic and pedestrian safety,” according to a 2013 email from St. Paul’s forestry supervisor.

The department stopped using tree debris “as a cushion for protection of paved surfaces” when cutting down large trees, according to the email, though St. Paul Parks and Recreation spokeswoman Clare Cloyd said that’s “still an accepted practice in the industry.” St. Paul now uses large steel plates to cushion a large tree’s fall, Cloyd said.

After the incident, forestry crews began using a form to document traffic and pedestrian safety in work zones. On high-traffic sites, they now assign at least one worker whose sole job is making sure pedestrians and traffic don’t get too close, Cloyd said. The city also purchased two-way radios and headphones for crews, for better communication.

The city reviewed what happened in 2013 and determined “no discipline was appropriate or necessary” for employees, Cloyd said.

Jan. 4, 2013, began as a normal day for Fladwood. The independent computer consultant finished his work and dropped by the Spot Bar at the corner of Randolph Avenue and Victoria Street. Fladwood arrived at 1:30 p.m., sipped a rum and Coke, then headed outside about 10 minutes later.

At least five other people were watching as the workers prepared to pull down the American elm, which the city determined had Dutch elm disease. The tree across the street from the bar was 60 feet tall and 4 feet in diameter and estimated to be 120 to 160 years old.

Fladwood’s lawsuit said city workers did not rope off the sidewalk near the bar or tell pedestrians not to stand there, but the city said in a court document “that it used a city employee rather than a rope to keep bystanders at a safe distance from the tree felling.”

When the tree was toppled and the logs flew, the same one that struck Fladwood hit or barely missed a St. Paul worker who also fell to the ground, according to the lawsuit. The city estimated the log that struck Fladwood was 7 feet long, more than 1½ feet wide and 826 pounds.

“I don’t remember anything,” Fladwood said this week. “I remember going outside and hearing a crack or something and next thing I knew, paramedics were there.”

Fladwood, who is a Vietnam War veteran, asked to be taken to the VA Medical Center, but paramedics told him he needed to go to a trauma center because of the severity of his injuries. He wound up at Regions Hospital. “When they lifted me off the gurney at the hospital, someone said my leg was bleeding like a faucet,” Fladwood said. An artery in his leg had been severed and Fladwood required emergency surgery.

Fladwood filed a lawsuit against the city of St. Paul in 2014, but the city responded in a court document that Fladwood “assumed the risk of being near the tree felling operation” and claimed official immunity. “The city’s argument was that the decision to use the ‘crash pad’ was protected by official immunity, which doesn’t deny that what happened to him was awful, just the city wasn’t liable,” said Clark, the city attorney.

But the Minnesota Court of Appeals ruled earlier this year that the facts of the case did not allow the city to claim official immunity. St. Paul filed an appeal with the Minnesota Supreme Court, which declined to take the case, and the city and Fladwood agreed to settle.

“The city refused to accept any responsibility, and we had to chase them all the way to the Minnesota Court of Appeals,” said Olsen, Fladwood’s attorney. “… They claimed they’re immune from it, but why should the city be treated any different than anybody else who’s done something stupid like this?”

Fladwood’s permanent injuries, pain and suffering, lost wages and medical expenses are far greater than the settlement amount, Olsen said, but state law sets $500,000 as the maximum amount a municipality can be liable for in a tort lawsuit.

Philbert

I am sure that if the Treeworkers were any good they would have roped it down. Easy. Especially near pedestrians. However, while taking down a Tulip Tree I dropped a FW size piece on a brush pile and a Bread Loaf size piece of wood shot about 70 feet across a street and went right through a Garage Door. Tree work is always working with "Dynamic Nature" anything can happen.

 

[pdqdl]

I pulled a tree over once, and it threw a 15lb chunk of wood 70' backwards from the direction of fall. While still tied to the rope! THEN it went over a single primary wire and hung a few feet off the ground, with the rope draped over the primary. Yep! That was exciting to fix.

Yes. Sometimes bad things happen in tree work. That probably accounts for why my worker's comp insurance is so high.


Go ahead! Ask me how you get a rope off a primary wire, tied to a dangling branch. Are YOU going to grab the rope and pull it off?

 

[crazyhorse666]

Is this actually serious? Surely it is some kind of joke that the City, or anyone else for that matter, can pay a settlement which halts any further investigation of the incident. How can anything be learnt from that approach? Any serious accident like that would be fully investigated by WorkSafe, a government body with wide reaching investigative powers, over here. They don't care about any financial settlements, their role is to investigate any serious workplace incident to determine the likely causes and what measures need to be introduced to prevent it happening again. If they find serious negligence by any party, they can recommend criminal charges. You can't buy your way out of a criminal negligence trial.

 

[crazyhorse666]

I pulled a tree over once, and it threw a 15lb chunk of wood 70' backwards from the direction of fall. While still tied to the rope! THEN it went over a single primary wire and hung a few feet off the ground, with the rope draped over the primary. Yep! That was exciting to fix.

Yes. Sometimes bad things happen in tree work. That probably accounts for why my worker's comp insurance is so high.


Go ahead! Ask me how you get a rope off a primary wire, tied to a dangling branch. Are YOU going to grab the rope and pull it off?

I assume this primary wire you speak of is an uninsulated power line? Did you know what voltage it was carrying? What type of rope? I will accept your numbers as I can't be bothered doing the physics. I would ask why the rope was attached? If it was being used to pull the tree over, how did it have 21m of slack. Even at the velocity required to travel 21m, a 70kg person could stop it with only a minor rope burn. I wouldn't be worried about your workers comp. insurance, That just covers you and whatever poor sap you have working for you. We carry a standard $30 million public liability insurance in case we hurt a civilian.

 

[pdqdl]

We were pulling a large silver maple over with a Maasdam rope winch. As I recall the rope was attached fairly high to the large dead branch going over the house. I think I rigged that branch to make sure that branch didn't have any undue stress and fall on the house as the tree went over.

When the tree crashed on the ground, the branch , now on the "top" of the tree, swung down, broke off the tip of the branch, and fractured the rope attachment. It then sprung back up (being the "top" branch of the collapsing tree), and flung backwards the single point on the whole limb that the rope was still tied to. It flew high to the end of the rope, and settled over the primary wire going to the transformer supplying the farmhouse beside the tree.
I wish I had a video of it happening, it might have been my best "gone viral" video.

As to the voltage? I have no idea. I would guess not less that 7,000 volts, and more likely to be 14,000 volts. Rope was Samson Stable-braid, 1/2" (13mm?)
We were way out in the "sticks". A call to the local power grid revealed that there was no linemen available to rescue us, so I got the rope down on my own.

I wasn't hanging on to the rope. It was attached to the rigging and couldn't have even caused a rope burn. That comment about worker's comp was geared towards the unpredictability of tree work, and high probability of accidents happening even with the best safety practices. That branch could easily have landed on a worker well inside the "safe zone", had the circumstances been a bit different. Same for liability insurance and bystanders. It's just that tree workers are typically a lot closer to the action than bystanders.

 

[crazyhorse666]

We were pulling a large silver maple over with a Maasdam rope winch. As I recall the rope was attached fairly high to the large dead branch going over the house. I think I rigged that branch to make sure that branch didn't have any undue stress and fall on the house as the tree went over.

When the tree crashed on the ground, the branch , now on the "top" of the tree, swung down, broke off the tip of the branch, and fractured the rope attachment. It then sprung back up (being the "top" branch of the collapsing tree), and flung backwards the single point on the whole limb that the rope was still tied to. It flew high to the end of the rope, and settled over the primary wire going to the transformer supplying the farmhouse beside the tree.
I wish I had a video of it happening, it might have been my best "gone viral" video.

As to the voltage? I have no idea. I would guess not less that 7,000 volts, and more likely to be 14,000 volts. Rope was Samson Stable-braid, 1/2" (13mm?)
We were way out in the "sticks". A call to the local power grid revealed that there was no linemen available to rescue us, so I got the rope down on my own.

I wasn't hanging on to the rope. It was attached to the rigging and couldn't have even caused a rope burn. That comment about worker's comp was geared towards the unpredictability of tree work, and high probability of accidents happening even with the best safety practices. That branch could easily have landed on a worker well inside the "safe zone", had the circumstances been a bit different. Same for liability insurance and bystanders. It's just that tree workers are typically a lot closer to the action than bystanders.

Sorry, I still have no idea what you are describing. Are you saying that you climbed the tree to attach some rigging to a dead branch overhanging the house but didn't just rig it down while you were up there. You then loaded up a whole heap of tension to pull the tree the way you wanted it to go, even though there was a high voltage line within the radius of your rigging. Then you were surprised when it all went to ****, contacted the power company, whose line it was, and they said 'Just deal with it yourself' rather than 'Don't go anywhere near our asset, you're obviously an *****' ?

 

[pdqdl]

That sure sounds like you are getting pretty high and mighty for a guy that wasn't there.
No, I never mentioned how the rope got set in the tree. That is a silly presumption on your part.

The rope was set high in the tree with the bucket truck. The bucket truck had reached it's height limit, but there was more tree remaining out of reach to remove, so we just dropped the tree away from the house.

I never mentioned putting a whole heap of tension on the rope. It was a gentle pull, secured by ropes. Had the knucklehead running the bucket not cut off the other side of the tree, it could have been felled without any ropes at all.

No, the wire was outside the drop zone of the tree. LIKE I TOLD YOU IN MY ORIGINAL STORY, the tree crashed and flung the branch backwards AFTER it hit the ground. While still tied off to the rope. Now that the tree was down, it had more rope to travel with, too.

I am offended by your accusation that "it all went to ****". It was a perfect drop, it worked according to plan, and it was just a bizarre event that tossed a branch in a very unusual way. THAT WAS THE POINT OF MY TALE: Bad things happen sometimes, despite your best precautions.

As to the utility company, LIKE I SAID, this location was a long ways from getting service by a lineman. We called and reported the problem. They said it would be many hours before they showed up. In the USA, the power companies have a rather rigid policy that they don't want you anywhere near their power lines. We didn't want to wait all day, so I managed the problem regardless of their plan to show up many hours later.

Here is a return question: Do you always assume that everyone else that does tree work is a dangerous moron, or did you save that specially offensive post just for me?

 

[pdqdl]

Is this actually serious? Surely it is some kind of joke that the City, or anyone else for that matter, can pay a settlement which halts any further investigation of the incident. How can anything be learnt from that approach? Any serious accident like that would be fully investigated by WorkSafe, a government body with wide reaching investigative powers, over here. They don't care about any financial settlements, their role is to investigate any serious workplace incident to determine the likely causes and what measures need to be introduced to prevent it happening again. If they find serious negligence by any party, they can recommend criminal charges. You can't buy your way out of a criminal negligence trial.

Of course it is serious.
No jokes involved, but I'll explain it to you:

There are many layers of governance in the USA, and any might become involved with that story. Since it was a city government, they are somewhat protected from liability lawsuits, but not completely. OSHA is the primary investigative work-related safety agency, but they typically do not become involved with accidents that do not involve employees. Had OSHA been involved, the liability suit would probably have waited for a determination so as to increase the value of their lawsuit.

No settlement would have stopped nor interfered with any "investigation" regarding safety rules enforcement. What happened was that the injured parties sued the city to recover their damages in a process that is referred to as civil liability lawsuit. Collectively, the lawyers involved with both sides of the litigation decided a monetary value to settle upon prior to going to court, and that was end of it. Victims got paid, guilty party paid for their damages. Lawyers took a nice cut from everyone involved.

 

[crazyhorse666]

Of course it is serious.
No jokes involved, but I'll explain it to you:

There are many layers of governance in the USA, and any might become involved with that story. Since it was a city government, they are somewhat protected from liability lawsuits, but not completely. OSHA is the primary investigative work-related safety agency, but they typically do not become involved with accidents that do not involve employees. Had OSHA been involved, the liability suit would probably have waited for a determination so as to increase the value of their lawsuit.

No settlement would have stopped nor interfered with any "investigation" regarding safety rules enforcement. What happened was that the injured parties sued the city to recover their damages in a process that is referred to as civil liability lawsuit. Collectively, the lawyers involved with both sides of the litigation decided a monetary value to settle upon prior to going to court, and that was end of it. Victims got paid, guilty party paid for their damages. Lawyers took a nice cut from everyone involved.

Ok. Good to know there's some form of safety regulation. Do you know why OSHA only gets involved if it is an employee that is injured? Over here it is often the opposite. If an employee is injured, it is possible for the accident to be rewritten so as to remove the dodgy, unsafe practices. The sanitised version can then be given to WorkSafe. With an accident that serious, I doubt there would be opportunity to sanitise it either way. As this accident happened six years ago, wouldn't the entire investigative report be easily accessed now? I know they can be slow at times, but those reports are usually available within 12 months, and are actually given to operators in the industry over here. All I'm hearing here is comment based on a 19 second video and a news report. As you are in the US, couldn't you access the report and post it here. I would have thought that is how you learn from someone else's mistakes, rather than having to make them yourself.

 

[lwmibc]

I expect the settlement in this case is confidential so we will never know the answer to this but--does the victim bear any personal responsibility for what happened here? He chose to stand right in the direction in which the tree was going to fall--and up against a wall yet. I admit to never in my 74 years having done that; it's just not a smart place to be.

“I don’t think it would take a rocket scientist to figure out if a massive, massive elm lands on the logs in the street, you don’t know where the logs are going to go,” said Elliot Olsen.

I didn't even once say 'Here, hold my rum and coke (beer in the Cariboo) and watch this!' as is often cited as the last spoken words of a pickup driver in the Cariboo interior of BC--when falling or watching someone else drop a tree. He was 'only' a computer consultant, but isn't that even half a rocket scientist?

I wouldn't have stood there--would any of you? And I wouldn't have cared if a city employee was standing there or not; not trying to be insulting, but rocket scientists might be as rare in city employee rosters as in small-town-bar patrons. Being chicken I'd have preferred the other side of the wall.

(I liked my brother's response best--he blamed the Dutch.)

 

[crazyhorse666]

That sure sounds like you are getting pretty high and mighty for a guy that wasn't there.
No, I never mentioned how the rope got set in the tree. That is a silly presumption on your part.

The rope was set high in the tree with the bucket truck. The bucket truck had reached it's height limit, but there was more tree remaining out of reach to remove, so we just dropped the tree away from the house.

I never mentioned putting a whole heap of tension on the rope. It was a gentle pull, secured by ropes. Had the knucklehead running the bucket not cut off the other side of the tree, it could have been felled without any ropes at all.

No, the wire was outside the drop zone of the tree. LIKE I TOLD YOU IN MY ORIGINAL STORY, the tree crashed and flung the branch backwards AFTER it hit the ground. While still tied off to the rope. Now that the tree was down, it had more rope to travel with, too.

I am offended by your accusation that "it all went to ****". It was a perfect drop, it worked according to plan, and it was just a bizarre event that tossed a branch in a very unusual way. THAT WAS THE POINT OF MY TALE: Bad things happen sometimes, despite your best precautions.

As to the utility company, LIKE I SAID, this location was a long ways from getting service by a lineman. We called and reported the problem. They said it would be many hours before they showed up. In the USA, the power companies have a rather rigid policy that they don't want you anywhere near their power lines. We didn't want to wait all day, so I managed the problem regardless of their plan to show up many hours later.

Here is a return question: Do you always assume that everyone else that does tree work is a dangerous moron, or did you save that specially offensive post just for me?

As for this post, I do apologise for being rude, I get a bit annoyed when it comes to safety and you just happened to be the person I took it out on. A personality flaw that I do try to keep in check. I also hate high voltage, I used to be ticketed to work around it, but these days I avoid it like the plague. Watched too many unpleasant videos and listened to too many nasty stories doing those tickets. I still can't figure out exactly what you are describing, but I should have recognised it as one of those, you had to be there to believe it, things. I have seen so many of them that I don't even bother trying to explain them to people any more. As you still seem to be alive, though you never know with computer technology, it appears that you manage the situation successfully. Again, I apologise for the rudeness. I shouldn't post when I'm tired and had a bad day.