Climbing question for you guys

[tramp bushler]

I've actually done a little bit of it which is why I know how tired it makes me. I've spent so long packin a power saw. That my pull down muscles aren't in very good shape. My lift up muscles tho.
I have no problem with them.
I've found some nice little practice trees at home. I plan on getting good srt rope walking by next season.

 

[adronetree]

All we do, all day every day. I have yet to try SRT, want to, but I am in pretty good physical shape, minus the major spine injury's, but hey, who's counting.............3, so I stay with the old ways, like it too much.
At 42, I weigh around 137lbs, have a 8 pack, looking for the 10, and can hand over hand for hours. Teaching my kids the same way. Cept I am making them learn olD school first. I have not even taught them foot locking yet, just to the point to belay the line with their feet. Just this week I let my oldest clip his seat together instead of traditional one side to one side on the seat. I have foot ascender and some other fancy gadgets, but they stay on the truck most of the time. The only new thing that I have added as of late was the caterpillar friction saver, I really love those things, make it so much easier, very little friction. My middle boy, who has taken the most liking got it, is going to be real good, kid is 180 and freakin jacked! I made him hip thrust about 40ft last week into a birch over a spruce, so as he was going up, the spruce was poking him, so he went as fast as he could. Once he got to his destination and looked back, he was surprised to see how far he went in such little time. You should try it tramp, would be a quick way to drop some pounds and get into that saddle ya want!
I hate spikes too, I use them when I have to, but even on removals, if I have I line set, off come the spikes. I use them mainly when bucking the log on a removal when there is no bark and its hard to keep a line in place or when doing a removal on a "pruned" tree that was actually lion tailed so bad the tree dies. Some of those long aas, strait and smooth branches are not easy to get out to with out any lower branches to climb on

Did you say 137? Really? I'm about 6ft at 220. I've got more like a 24 pack going for 25.... J/k I'm in good shape but I am heavy as a block of lead. I don't have any trouble climbing the rope, like you it won't tire me either..
Cool you are teaching your kids a skill they can fall back on if they need to one day.
Wish I could get my teenage stepdaughters to try climbing or to do anything I like to do for that matter.

 

[adronetree]

Hmm

Well sounds like I should just keep on with I'm doing by everyone's opinion.. Its different but if it works I guess it works. Sorry I haven't replied in a few days I work alot and I'm 6-9 hours ahead of you guys depending on where you live. . Tramp, I might be 10 hours ahead of you not sure??, we were in Alaska a year in 2004 but I can't remember the time zone.
What is an OP???

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Original Poster. You, in this case.

 

[Carburetorless]

Well sounds like I should just keep on with I'm doing by everyone's opinion.. Its different but if it works I guess it works. Sorry I haven't replied in a few days I work alot and I'm 6-9 hours ahead of you guys depending on where you live. . Tramp, I might be 10 hours ahead of you not sure??, we were in Alaska a year in 2004 but I can't remember the time zone.
What is an OP???

Orange Pencil?
Odd Position?
Oily Popcorn? Jeff, anything to add?

 

[beastmaster]

What type of trees are you climbing mostly out there? On single trunk vertical trees like pines and cedars spikes rule for the most part. I learned on spikes and I feel real comfortable on them. If you neglect climbing on them when its advantages you'll only be hurting your self. The same goes if all you do is climb on spikes.
Don't start back climbing by developing bad habits, and leaning on one Technic. If your using your climbing line tied off above you, maybe you don't even need spikes. If your doing a tree with limbs far a part you could probably move faster using just spike and a lanyard, tieing your climbing line below your lanyard when doing cuts for safety.
Point is each has an advantage some times over the other. If your not comfortable on spikes with a lanyard, I would recommend forcing your self to climb on them more tell you are. Age doesn't have a lot to do with it, you can teach old dogs new tricks. Good luck

 

[kyle goddard]

What type of trees are you climbing mostly out there? On single trunk vertical trees like pines and cedars spikes rule for the most part. I learned on spikes and I feel real comfortable on them. If you neglect climbing on them when its advantages you'll only be hurting your self. The same goes if all you do is climb on spikes.
Don't start back climbing by developing bad habits, and leaning on one Technic. If your using your climbing line tied off above you, maybe you don't even need spikes. If your doing a tree with limbs far a part you could probably move faster using just spike and a lanyard, tieing your climbing line below your lanyard when doing cuts for safety.
Point is each has an advantage some times over the other. If your not comfortable on spikes with a lanyard, I would recommend forcing your self to climb on them more tell you are. Age doesn't have a lot to do with it, you can teach old dogs new tricks. Good luck

You got me thinking, a few weeks ago i took my lanyard with a grillon and added a hitch pully/ prusik to the other end of it. So i sort of have a ce lanyar. Now using both ends on a spar or single lead tree, would that qualify.as two tie in points?

 

[adronetree]

What type of trees are you climbing mostly out there? On single trunk vertical trees like pines and cedars spikes rule for the most part. I learned on spikes and I feel real comfortable on them. If you neglect climbing on them when its advantages you'll only be hurting your self. The same goes if all you do is climb on spikes.
Don't start back climbing by developing bad habits, and leaning on one Technic. If your using your climbing line tied off above you, maybe you don't even need spikes. If your doing a tree with limbs far a part you could probably move faster using just spike and a lanyard, tieing your climbing line below your lanyard when doing cuts for safety.
Point is each has an advantage some times over the other. If your not comfortable on spikes with a lanyard, I would recommend forcing your self to climb on them more tell you are. Age doesn't have a lot to do with it, you can teach old dogs new tricks. Good luck

Well thats the difference between Geaorgia and Norway. Georgia we have alot of tall pines/poplars with space between limbs and a long way to the top...Here in Norway the trees tend to be much shorter with alot more canopy. They are 40-60ft tall bushes really, limbs everywhere. Once you are 10 ft off the ground they start bushing out.
They have some type of oak similar to a red oak but shorter and more limbs, a variety of birch and a species of ash. They have something related to poplar but smaller and thinner not like the big tulips or yellow poplars we have back home. They have a type of pine tree too but nothing like the ones in the US and not as common. 40-60ft with crooked heavy tops and alot of twisted heavy limbs.
Then alot of different types of smaller evergreens like spruce etc....
I saw a job the other day a guy did removing a cherry tree.. Leaning over the back of a barn on a hill. 40-45 ft tall. 18 inch diameter. 8 or 9 limbs lowered then bucking down the trunk. Cut into firewood length and then hand carry to the truck and chipper 50ft away after that.
They had a tractor with a pto chipper and a 5 yard chip/dump truck. It took the guys a full day to do the tree. Back home me or any of you guys probably would have knocked it out in about 2 hours or less with 3 men.
I found out they charged around 25,000kr for the job. Thats somewhere around $4200.00....
Very interesting. Not bad.
If I could just unlearn American prices maybe I'll do alright here. Feels wrong to me charging someone twice as much as I'm used to but I guess its a different economy.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

You got me thinking, a few weeks ago i took my lanyard with a grillon and added a hitch pully/ prusik to the other end of it. So i sort of have a ce lanyar. Now using both ends on a spar or single lead tree, would that qualify.as two tie in points?

Technically, one of your tie in's needs to be a safety line long enough to get you to the ground.

 

[kyle goddard]

Technically, one of your tie in's needs to be a safety line long enough to get you to the ground.

Thats what I thought was said in a seminar at the expo in Baltimore. I guess in an emergency situation that would come in real handy.

 

[beastmaster]

Technically, one of your tie in's needs to be a safety line long enough to get you to the ground.

Very true, and it makes good sense. When your making trunk cuts on trees using spikes and a lanyard, tieing in with your climbing line below your lanyard gives you a second chance at life if you were to cut your lanyard, I use a gri gri and choke the tree with my climbing line, this also gives you some protection in the unlikelihood the tree split, but more important if you were to cut your self or get crushed or........you could hopefully belay your self down quickly before you bled out.
I only started doing this these last few years, but it should be automatic. Maybe not practical for limbing limbs on the way up, unless you got all day to do it.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Best movie ever: Ronin, with Robert Deniro, for these two reasons, aside from the fact it was a great movie, for these two quotes:

"Lady, I don't ever walk into a place I don't know how to get out of." Tree guy translation: "I don't ever climb a tree I don't know how to get out of, one-handed and injured if need be."
Think on your rig. I got nailed with a 300lb oak log the groundie was supposed to let run and didn't. Came back at me and dislocated three fingers on my left hand, and hurt. a lot. Because I was tied in with a proper lifeline tie-in, I was able to relaease my secondary, rappel down, and deck him, all with one hand. If I hadn't had an easy way to the ground, he might of escaped from that incident unharmed.

Second best quote: " When there is doubt, there is no doubt.". If you don't know you have a 100% safe way to the ground at all times, there will be doubt at some point, or your just dumb, or don't know any better. Always have a way to the ground, be it bees, or hidden defects, or idiot groundies. But if it can happen it will happen, and they call it a lifeline for a reason.

 

[beastmaster]

Best movie ever: Ronin, with Robert Deniro, for these two reasons, aside from the fact it was a great movie, for these two quotes:

"Lady, I don't ever walk into a place I don't know how to get out of." Tree guy translation: "I don't ever climb a tree I don't know how to get out of, one-handed and injured if need be."
Think on your rig. I got nailed with a 300lb oak log the groundie was supposed to let run and didn't. Came back at me and dislocated three fingers on my left hand, and hurt. a lot. Because I was tied in with a proper lifeline tie-in, I was able to relaease my secondary, rappel down, and deck him, all with one hand. If I hadn't had an easy way to the ground, he might of escaped from that incident unharmed.

Second best quote: " When there is doubt, there is no doubt.". If you don't know you have a 100% safe way to the ground at all times, there will be doubt at some point, or your just dumb, or don't know any better. Always have a way to the ground, be it bees, or hidden defects, or idiot groundies. But if it can happen it will happen, and they call it a lifeline for a reason.

I like your style Jolly Logger. I too once decked a groundie, but it was after I had to pull up a 50 lb branch that tangled in my climbing line 60 ft. He was off smoking a cigarette. I'm a lot more understanding these day but stupid still pisses me off.

 

[adronetree]

Very true, and it makes good sense. When your making trunk cuts on trees using spikes and a lanyard, tieing in with your climbing line below your lanyard gives you a second chance at life if you were to cut your lanyard, I use a gri gri and choke the tree with my climbing line, this also gives you some protection in the unlikelihood the tree split, but more important if you were to cut your self or get crushed or........you could hopefully belay your self down quickly before you bled out.
I only started doing this these last few years, but it should be automatic. Maybe not practical for limbing limbs on the way up, unless you got all day to do it.

Beastmaster I have been watching an Australian guy on youtube using the figure 8 in the same way you are using a gri gri I guess?
, he chokes the tree with a running bowline leaving a long tail to move it and soft locks the figure 8 allowing him to escape. Is this sensible or practical in your mind?

Sorry for the stupid questions.
I knew a few guys who were really good climbers that are dead or seriously injured and I've seen hundreds of near misses so I'm spending alot of time watching, reading, and asking questions about everything as I start climbing regularly. Most every climbing death story I've heard came down to something they forgot to do or skipped at that moment intentionally taking risks or accidentally. Alot of times it seems to be indirectly related to drugs or alcohol and them not being with it mentally the next day which I've seen myself about a hundred times. Other times maybe their mind was just in the wrong place.
When I was 20 I just did it without thought or fear but now restarting at 40 I'm trying to be smart about it.
If I weren't in Norway I would just make the most logical decision and hire climbers as I've always done but I don't have that choice here so.
Maybe If I can get a tree business going well here in a year or two then I can import an American at double pay from what hes used to (unskilled laborers are making $300 a day) but for now I have to get it done myself...

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Beastmaster I have been watching an Australian guy on youtube using the figure 8 in the same way you are using a gri gri I guess?
, he chokes the tree with a running bowline leaving a long tail to move it and soft locks the figure 8 allowing him to escape. Is this sensible or practical in your mind?

Sorry for the stupid questions.
I knew a few guys who were really good climbers that are dead or seriously injured and I've seen hundreds of near misses so I'm spending alot of time watching, reading, and asking questions about everything as I start climbing regularly. Most every climbing death story I've heard came down to something they forgot to do or skipped at that moment intentionally taking risks or accidentally. Alot of times it seems to be indirectly related to drugs or alcohol and them not being with it mentally the next day which I've seen myself about a hundred times. Other times maybe their mind was just in the wrong place.
When I was 20 I just did it without thought or fear but now restarting at 40 I'm trying to be smart about it.
If I weren't in Norway I would just make the most logical decision and hire climbers as I've always done but I don't have that choice here so.
Maybe If I can get a tree business going well here in a year or two then I can import an American at double pay from what hes used to (unskilled laborers are making $300 a day) but for now I have to get it done myself...

I don't think they're stupid questions at all. The fact that you're on here at all asking them speaks well for you. That's what this site is all about to me, sharing knowledge to make this a safer business for all. I do think that as your skills and experience grow your definition of what a "good climber" really is will change It sounds to me like when you were in Georgia your opinion of a good climber, like most business owners, was really a fast climber. Those good, dead climbers sound to me like fast lucky climbers that got away with some unsafe practices and habits until the law of averages caught up with them. Stay safe and never be afraid to ask a question that could save your life. Jeff

 

[adronetree]

You certainly have a point. When I was early twenties almost everyone I watched weren't using climbing ropes at all. Spikes and flipline only. They thought it was a waste of time and effort setting a rope or moving it around unless they absolutely needed it for limb walking or something.. I have always judged climbers by their speed and ability not to wack houses or fences etc. Never really given too much thought to their technique with regard to their own safety. I guess I always figured their own safety was more their own personal business.
I sure do care about it when its me up there though. Most of the guys I worked with seem to have no fear of it. I do right now.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

My dad told me a good story a while back that has really stuck with me. When he was learning to drive, he had a bad habit of tailgating, as most new drivers do. My Grandpa didn't yell at him, just pointed it out and said," You can get away with that once, even twice, maybe a thousand times. But if you keep doing it, you will end up rearending somebody." There are so many tailgating habits in this industry. Some guys get away with them for years, decades even. But that doesn't make them safe. By the Way, my dad has never been in an accident. You brought up another good point. When I climb, I climb. Period. Nothing else matters. And when I start getting tired, and start thinking about shortcuts, I come down. The tree will still be there tomorrow, but if I start taking shortcuts, I may not be. Jeff

 

[r0ck1r0ck2]

Hear Hear!

 

[tramp bushler]

I yell guys that look up at me wondering what I'm doing ( with an attitude of Hurry Up) . That if they don't like the way I'm doing it, they can come up and help.
No one has yet.
I've gotten to where I like having my climbing line around the tree on removals. But I hadn't thot of using a running bowline to my Gri Gri. That's a good idea. It would be more of a compact unit than the hitch hiker for that application.
The problem with an 8 is you need 2 hands to operate it. The Gri Gri or the hh or the Unicender can be operated 1 hand.

 

[tramp bushler]

I like your style Jolly Logger. I too once decked a groundie, but it was after I had to pull up a 50 lb branch that tangled in my climbing line 60 ft. He was off smoking a cigarette. I'm a lot more understanding these day but stupid still pisses me off.

I get pretty kurt with my ground guys if they are not keeping an eye on what's going on with me and my rope also.
Really maddening when they can spend all day on their phone and not do what I need them to.