climbing-tearing up your body-how long can we do it for!?

[tree md]

I turned 40 6 months ago. Been climbing since 91. Got hurt pretty bad at the end of 01 and couldn't walk for a year without a cane. I started doing home repairs and eventually ended up working as a personal trainer for a paraplegic lady. That lasted about 2 years but I started back to doing trees on the side in 04. By 06 I was back at it full time again. Trees are all I really know. Couldn't see myself doing anything else. It is what I have done for nearly my entire adult life. When I wasn't doing it I missed it.

I got a little burnt out last year with the ice storm we had here. Had to work 31 days straight without a day off in the beginning and was busy as a one armed paper hanger up till fall. Then business dropped off and I got to hunt as much as I wanted through the season. It's starting to pick back up but would like to see it pick up a little more. I get the same aches and pains as everyone else but nothing too severe. I like to work hard, it makes the beer taste good at the end of the day. I've got to say that I might not be as physically fit as when I was younger but I am a better faster climber. I'm better at positioning and making my way through the tree. I work a lot smarter now. Barring any accidents or health problems, I can easily see myself climbing into my 60's. Had a climber contract with me from OH during the ice storm who was 64 and he was GOOD!

Funny, 33 don't sound too old to me. That was prime time for me as far as being physically fit.

 

[Blakesmaster]

This is interesting stuff for me. In the past 2 years I've been doing more climbing than ground work and am feeling some side effects. Elbows and shoulders ache, calves, thighs and shins as well. Don't even get me started on my wrists and hands from constant saw vibes. It could be the climbing, it could be my age setting in but I don't know. Would be good to hear more stories from the vets about how they've lasted as long as they have.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

56, 5'10" and 155 lbs., same as in high school. Vegan for the last fifteen years, ovo lacto vegetarian for fifteen before that. I've been climbing for about twenty years, both for business and pleasure. My aches and pains fade away as soon as I'm up in the trees and they don't stop me from having fun when I'm down. Like someone said before, I take the gigs at my pace, and that is the big difference, I think. If I climbed for others and had to do so at their pace, I doubt that I would enjoy my working days as much as I do. I hope to keep climbing for another twenty years, but one never knows----

Related: There seems to be a common thread in replies, when centenarians are asked how they made it to 100. Most say that keeping busy and active are the key. When I am off for a few days at a time, it is then that my body starts letting me know about aches in muscles and joints I never knew I had!

 

[Raymond]

I turned 40 6 months ago. Been climbing since 91. Got hurt pretty bad at the end of 01 and couldn't walk for a year without a cane. I started doing home repairs and eventually ended up working as a personal trainer for a paraplegic lady. That lasted about 2 years but I started back to doing trees on the side in 04. By 06 I was back at it full time again. Trees are all I really know. Couldn't see myself doing anything else. It is what I have done for nearly my entire adult life. When I wasn't doing it I missed it.

I got a little burnt out last year with the ice storm we had here. Had to work 31 days straight without a day off in the beginning and was busy as a one armed paper hanger up till fall. Then business dropped off and I got to hunt as much as I wanted through the season. It's starting to pick back up but would like to see it pick up a little more. I get the same aches and pains as everyone else but nothing too severe. I like to work hard, it makes the beer taste good at the end of the day. I've got to say that I might not be as physically fit as when I was younger but I am a better faster climber. I'm better at positioning and making my way through the tree. I work a lot smarter now. Barring any accidents or health problems, I can easily see myself climbing into my 60's. Had a climber contract with me from OH during the ice storm who was 64 and he was GOOD!

Funny, 33 don't sound too old to me. That was prime time for me as far as being physically fit.

Good for you! I took a nasty fall awhile back and was down for 4 months. Man I tell ya it felt like a year.

The doctors told me I would need to be getting in another line of work. I laughed, my wife laughed I told him you just get me fixed up and I'll be fine. I was climbing and removed a VERY LARGE silver maple the day after my neck brace was removed. And two weeks after my two casts were removed.

 

[capetrees]

----------------------------------------------
-How many of you have been climbing for 10 years or more?

-How many of you do this full-time, and how many of you do this tree service part-time.

-How many of you have nagging aches and pains that make you want to change professions because your body just cant take it anymore?

-How many of you have come back from having constant aches and pains to keep climbing on and on?

-What age have most of you older gents quit climbing?


These are all questions I ponder on a day to day basis still lately. I don't know if its because I'm still single, or what! but I've been climbing and have owned my own tree company for 12 years now! This is a question I ask myself quite frequently now. I am 33. I don't know if its because I cant stand my employees (I know thats harsh) but because good, smart, conscientious cool employees are hard to find (dudes are hassles), because I'm working too long hours, because I'm climbing too much, because I'm not making enough (because I tell you I don't seem to ache as much when I'm making 1,000 + a day few times a month), I don't gain enough respect for my work, I don't stretch enough, get enough sleep, again because I'm still single, or because I dont smoke enough green anymore!?
Or whether its just what I've heard from other guys locally who own successful businesses in this area (Boston) that guys can only take so many years of climbing. That 8-10 years of climbing is about all a man can take, and most guys have to give it up after a while..

-Can you tell I'm having a midlife crisis guys!?

The thing is, getting someone to go up there and do the work for you while you watch, when you are such a good arborist yourself, to do the work for you, while you sit there and watch, is so hard for me to do.
Good climbers, especially arborists, who know how to listen, discuss a tree's many unique characteristics and needs individual to each tree species, and guys who can get the job done, responsibly, are so hard to come by.
The legendary Rolf Briggs from Tree Specialists Inc. once told me that the good climbers eventually end up leaving the industry, unless they are making 80K a year plus, because its just not worth it for them. The amount of work, the wear and tear, the customer correspondence, the risk, and just everything that goes along with it, its just too much to handle on a day to day basis very long.

Sorry for this guys. I know its not what some of you want to hear. There are many things I love about this job. Furthermore I should be thankful that I have a job the way the economy is right now. But its just running me into the ground. So much of the time I'm just feeling like I'm over it. I have mastered trees I feel. I need to move on, and only do this part-time. Thats what I think I'm going to do, is do this part-time. I'm just not making enough money. I'm trying to become a nurse.
Ok, you can all call me gay now :deadhorse: :sword:

ps. this is totally different for you guys who work for someone else. TOTALLY different! I think I could handle that (So keep climbing guys!). And unless you've ever run your own tree company you can probably relate more easily. But this is to you guys who have been running your own quality tree care company for many years! The owners. Peace to y'all

I've been climbing trees, as many in here know, since I could just about walk. Now, I'm 45, 220 lbs and have no desire to stop climbing or doing what I do anytime soon. Tree work for me is part time, weekends mostly and for the rest of the week I'm a general contractor/landscaper and it's labor all day, the kind nobody else wants to do. I work in the rain, snow, wind, day, night, weekends, anywhere, anytime and I love it. Yes, I get worn down on occasion but I do break up the year with two scheduled weekends off, one in the summer and one in the winter and I recuperate pretty quickly. No real vacations for the past 5 years I think and here comes another spring/busy season. No question I love what I do.

If the labor is getting to you, move on to something you want to do thats not so labor intensive, maybe even another job related to the field without the labor, maybe office manager or estimator for a tree company or even, as mentioned, a total different occupation, a nurse. (and no, thats not gay) Some have the durability and some don't, Don't take it as a sign of a lack of manhood. Its just reality. On the other hand for me, I would probably go on a three state killing spree if I had to work in and office for more than a week. My siblings can't do this work and all work in white collar jobs. Its just the nature of the beast.

Good luck

 

[grizzly2]

A vegan from Texas? I didn't know that was possible. Just kidding! I'm 33, and have been at it for about thirteen years. I typically only ache on the weekends that I don't work. Just means I need to keep working.

 

[Greenstar]

56, 5'10" and 155 lbs., same as in high school. Vegan for the last fifteen years, ovo lacto vegetarian for fifteen before that. I've been climbing for about twenty years, both for business and pleasure. My aches and pains fade away as soon as I'm up in the trees and they don't stop me from having fun when I'm down. Like someone said before, I take the gigs at my pace, and that is the big difference, I think. If I climbed for others and had to do so at their pace, I doubt that I would enjoy my working days as much as I do. I hope to keep climbing for another twenty years, but one never knows----

Related: There seems to be a common thread in replies, when centenarians are asked how they made it to 100. Most say that keeping busy and active are the key. When I am off for a few days at a time, it is then that my body starts letting me know about aches in muscles and joints I never knew I had!

Good stuff man! Nice website too. You look like you run a tight ship! A model service which probably works well for you. Good stuff man, good stuff!

Hey, just a quick question about that "Live Oak that is far too bushy!" in your before and after photos page.

It definitely looks awesome, and I totally agree with you. Nice expanation too, as far as to what it needs. My only question is that when such a transformation/pruning/remodeling is needed, is it really safe to take all that out just in one sitting? Again, like i said, it looks awesome! But it seems like you took out A LOT.
I have always been told to do most of the structural big stuff, thin out the interior, but leave some of the epicormic growth, and lower branches until a second stage a year or to later once the tree recovers from such an aggressive prune?
Again, is that safe to do? Are you sure it won't shock the tree? My biggest fear too in a situation like that is all f a sudden the roots and ground are opened up to much increased light, sun, heat, and air, and then the young trees environment has totally changed, and its roots suffer from drought stress!

Anyway, you are model for us arborists. Nice pruning, and nice website.

Peace man!

Ben, in Boston

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Cut down on the booze, eat right, drink lots of water, and get on some fish oil capsules. I gotta do it too.

One of the shortest posts...one of the best. I concur.

I personally don't do much climbing but I'm working my butt off to build a legit business.

It's all about the inputs brother.

Think about yourself as a high tech tree care machine, because you are, the highest of tech from the highest of engineers.

Thus only the purest and best fuel in the tank, the best lube in the joints. Don't overheat, and stay on a maintenance schedule.

Monkeys do it their whole life cause they don't eat junk, else they'd be ground pounding their way to extinction....like most of us.

My "twenty somethings" that I've gone through wonder why I can walk away from them, especially down the stretch, this is why. Of course, now I'm down to one that has a strong back and a clue so we are good to go.

If I would have treated myself this way during my athlete daze, then who knows what I could have accomplished.

The best shape I was ever in was during Army training when I had zero access to junk.

By the way I beat tennis elbow in both elbows with the help of things like bromelain. The natural source is found in pineapples, but you can buy a supplement.

http://www.curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=340308

Along with eating right, I take various supplements and vitamins. I can tell a difference when I skip them.

Good luck, stay tough.

 

[Greenstar]

Blakesmaster, and capetrees,

How about your hands?
I gotta say that my hands have started aching a lot, and I realize its from gripping the rope so hard when you climb. I don't know why this is just starting to effect me now, but I am afraid to get arthritis in my hands. Because when I feel pain in my hands sometimes now, it just sucks. I never used to be like this, but quite frankly, as most of you all know, when climbing, and placing yourself in and around trees, you're always grabbing your rope, doing a little body thrusting, pulling yourself with rope, correct? Clenching those hands real tight around the rope!
That cant be too good for your hands!
Dudes, my knuckles and hands have been aching for few months now!

Hey, maybe I will take bromelain, and fish oils. Actually fellas, try Hemp oil! Its this brand Nutiva, you can find it on Amazon. The stuff is so tasty, and good. Its organic hemp oil. GREAT source of omega 3,6, and 9's. And the best thing about it is it tastes so good! Tastes nutty, and sweet like. Put it on everything. Cant wait to buy some more.

Peace guys.

 

[ropensaddle]

This is interesting stuff for me. In the past 2 years I've been doing more climbing than ground work and am feeling some side effects. Elbows and shoulders ache, calves, thighs and shins as well. Don't even get me started on my wrists and hands from constant saw vibes. It could be the climbing, it could be my age setting in but I don't know. Would be good to hear more stories from the vets about how they've lasted as long as they have.

lol it is called bills.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Check out a Physical Therapist for chronic muscular problems. They can give you exercises and manipulations (deep massage) methods to unlock some of that stuff.

Mine says I have tendonopothy problems because my strength is concentrated in very short ranges of motion; the roper gripping you mention is a very good example.

It is very painfull at first, but you will notice less pain and more strength after a very short period of time. I seem to recall Dan and I trading some "My Therapist is More Sadistic than Yours" stories a while back.

Also, if you think yoga is for sissies, check out Thai-Chi. Heck, try a pillates class to hunt for a S/O.

Hey Dan, you know you do this because you get paid to play in trees.

 

[TreeTopKid]

I've been climbing for 24yrs, and i find it easier now than I used to. i don't think climbing "tears your body up" I think if you don't stay in shape you can pull muscles and tendons, and of course you can accrue injuries.

I know a guy who's approaching retirement who still climbs albeit a little slower so I see no reason why anyone couldn't continue as long as they wished.

I also think yoga is great although I don't partake but I do have a rigorous workout schedule. I also think a good diet is vital. It's not a job for burger eaters.

The parameters of my employment do not enable me be to climbing as much as I would like so I find myself creating opportunities!

 

[treeclimber101]

I don't know but when i prune all day , my legs don't seem to hurt as much , yesturday i spent 7 hrs trimming silver maples and the only that bothered me was my forearms. But when i'm in spikes in like 3 hrs. i seem to fall apart and I am much more tired . I think trunk chunking does me in the fastest , especially if your roping it all down. Maybe i'm crazy.

 

[murphy4trees]

Since you asked .....

RAISE YOUR PRICES....

I AM 49, been climbing profesionally since 81... graduated college in 86 and have done tree work as a full time profession since then. I do almost all the climbing, and make a decent living... Occasionally I'll subcontract a contract climber or 75' bucket truck, and use the local crane companies when the work is there.

I used to use my own strength and hard work to power through jobs while charging next to nothing for the work... Worked so hard with so little to show for it... Working with old beat up trucks and chippers. There were other local companies that would just walk away from estimates without even giving a price if they found out I was bidding on it too.

THAT SUCKED!!!

After i got Lyme in 98, I just couldn't work that hard anymore.. so I raised my prices, did more advertising and it all went so much better. Now I run a 14' chip truck with a 2007 Brush bandit 1590 (with winch) and a 2003 Rayco super RG 50 grinder... bought an 97 GMC altec LR IV, last Feb as well... At only 55' it doesn;t get out that much though.. All is paid for...

If you are only making $1000 on a good day, and you can climb as well as you say,... then you are probably underpricing. Severly. $2000-2500 should be a good day. $1,200-1,500 average even in this economy!

When you raise your prices you can pay your men better and therefore get better men, as well as buy some decent equipment and put some cash away etc..

12hrs/day x 6 days/week is over working the body.. Find a contract climber to do the big trees and put enough $ on the monsters to pay for the crane... Learn to accurately fall trees and get up on the latest climbing gear and techniques.. Give yourself fallow periods.. vacations or plow snow or whatever... let the body R&R..

I AM MUCH faster that I was 16 years ago when I was 33... SO much faster..
And so much more profitable...

Now as far as "feeling stupid doing yoga"... Get over that. My girl is a yoga teacher and she kicks my butt... She's hard to keep up with... Ripped and unstopable... When I can barely get out of bed in the morning, she's on her way to the gym for 30+ minutes on the eliptical and then swims a mile at 7:30 AM...

So find a good yoga studio and class. And if you want to meet a good woman, you'll be outnumberred 8:1.. Take your pick.. They are awesome women... And after doing yoga with her on weekends for the past two months, I have never been in as good physical conditioning coming into mid March as I AM right now..

PM me with your # if you want to talk.

 

[tree md]

:agree2:

It's been over 10 years since I have worked for another service. When I was younger I worked with a couple of the larger outfits. One service would dog it's climbers out and have the best climbers on monster removals or difficult prunes every day of the week. That guy had a high turn over rate. The other large service (and by far the best I worked for) Spread his talent are round. He had five crews with climbers of different skill levels (plus the owner climbed himself). All were pretty good climbers. He would put a climber on a difficult tree one day then give them a light job the next day and use another climber and crew for the next difficult job, That way no one got beat up too bad and everyone remained pretty fresh.

Working for oneself is sometimes slow paced, sometimes grueling. I wish it would be more even keel all year but that is not the way it works. During the last ice storm I mentioned in my last post we were balls to the wall pretty much all year. Hard to take a day off when driveways are blocked, trees are on houses and you have people calling all night screaming at you to get them cleaned up ASAP. That's where the service part of the business is in full effect. I cuss the slow periods but TG for them. No one can work balls to the wall 365 a year and last.

I agree with Murph on pricing. I like to bid for a crane on the largest, hairiest removals and I intend to get paid well. On a large risky removal I am going to make at least a grand, just me, above and beyond my expense. My deductible is a grand and I am going to at least have my ass covered. Let the other guys beat themselves up working for peanuts. Not me, I'm not in it for my health.

I bid a large removal at a church for $3600 a couple of weeks ago. No access for a crane and I would have to spend a day lowering wood, maybe two. Plus they wanted the large stump ground as well as the root system that went through the whole back yard. I bid 31 for the tree and 500 for the stump and roots. When I submitted the bid I could tell they had already gotten a much lower estimate by their actions. My dad was palling around with me that day and asked me why I didn't try to compete with the lower bid. I told him because I don't want them all. The job would have more than likely taken me 3 days from start to finish with all the rigging, moving wood out of there where there was no access for equipment and the stump and roots. I actually thought my bid was pretty low for all the work involved. I will let someone else beat themselves up for peanuts on that one, if I do it I intend to get paid and paid well. The very next day I secured a $5300 job with less risk and better access.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Had a guy show up at the chipper while I was chipping the other day and wanted an estimate.

So I give him one...he smiled and says, "that's too high."

I smiled and said, "I know, everytyhing is too high."

He tells me he wants another bid from someone else to compare. I told him that would be great, and if they bid lower they can have it, I stay pretty busy.

It was a lighthearted exchange as he smoked his pipe in one of the niced suburbs in town.

 

[treeclimber101]

Had a guy show up at the chipper while I was chipping the other day and wanted an estimate.

So I give him one...he smiled and says, "that's too high."

I smiled and said, "I know, everytyhing is too high."

He tells me he wants another bid from someone else to compare. I told him that would be great, and if they bid lower they can have it, I stay pretty busy.

It was a lighthearted exchange as he smoked his pipe in one of the niced suburbs in town.

Yea guess what they all think the word recession means work cheap but :censored: that i pay the same for insurance payments fuel and equipment nothing has gotten any cheaper for me.

 

[Adkpk]

I'm just starting a 52. My knee was hurting pretty bad this week (I don't know why) but nothing was stopping me from climbing the hill in the back yard to get to the giant pine to try out my newly arrived "Texas Tree Monkey System". I feel better now.

I also find climbing to be relaxing on all else which ails me. But then again I don't climb everyday.

 

[TreeTopKid]

:agree2:
I told him because I don't want them all. The job would have more than likely taken me 3 days from start to finish with all the rigging, moving wood out of there where there was no access for equipment and the stump and roots. I actually thought my bid was pretty low for all the work involved. I will let someone else beat themselves up for peanuts on that one, if I do it I intend to get paid and paid well. The very next day I secured a $5300 job with less risk and better access.

EXACTLY! There's nothing worse than the trepidation about bringing a job in on time, safely, and making enough money because it's under priced. Let someone else be the busy fool.

 

[TreeTopKid]

..........but nothing was stopping me from climbing the hill in the back yard to get to the giant pine to try out my newly arrived "Texas Tree Monkey System". I feel better now.


I was looking at that in the B**hop Cat. How did you get along with that.