Climbing with los muchachos

[Mapleman]

ropensaddle;

Well then I say take all the illegals with you and go back sorry if I seem bitter toward the trespassing thief's of American business, you know; the ones that have to pay for their free care while not being able to afford our own.

R&S,

Maybe you should watch Clint Eastwood's new flick: "Gran Turino." It might help with a little of that bitterness. If you want to continue this, let's do it via private email, ok?

 

[gr8scott72]

ropensaddle;

Well then I say take all the illegals with you and go back sorry if I seem bitter toward the trespassing thief's of American business, you know; the ones that have to pay for their free care while not being able to afford our own.

R&S,

Maybe you should watch Clint Eastwood's new flick: "Gran Turino." It might help with a little of that bitterness. If you want to continue this, let's do it via private email, ok?

Why private? This is a very public matter.

I also think there was poverty and poor conditions in some of these other countries before nafta and there would be even if nafta ended.

I live in the greatest country in the world and don't want it to end up like some 3rd world country.

 

[Mapleman]

Scott,

Look around, bro, we're already halfway to being a third world country, and it's gonna' get worse. Drive through downtown Detroit sometime. The root problem isn't illegal immigration, that's just a symptom. The problem is globalization where the big boys control the world economy. We only see what effects us here, and in other parts of the world they have their own problems, but it's all related...

You right though, there was plenty of poverty in Central America before nafta, and if you read a little history you'll see that people like the Rockerfellers, Dulleses, Bushes and their buddies own big fruit companies that bought up all the land, paid slave wages, and finally overthrew democratically elected governments that wanted to give the working stiff a fair shake.

I love my country, it's the government and the corporatocracy I hate. I consider myself a patriot in the true spirit of guys like Thomas Paine and Paul Revere, not like some mealy-mouthed politico who's trying to score points by scaring people about illegals. Sure there will always be people who come here to live off the dole, but for every one of them there are four or five people who are busting their humps to send money home to feed their families. Wouldn't you do the same if your kids were hungry? And BTW, there are plenty of Americans who live off the dole, and alot of them call themselves politicians...

 

[treemandan]

Scott,

Look around, bro, we're already halfway to being a third world country, and it's gonna' get worse. Drive through downtown Detroit sometime. The root problem isn't illegal immigration, that's just a symptom. The problem is globalization where the big boys control the world economy. We only see what effects us here, and in other parts of the world they have their own problems, but it's all related...

You right though, there was plenty of poverty in Central America before nafta, and if you read a little history you'll see that people like the Rockerfellers, Dulleses, Bushes and their buddies own big fruit companies that bought up all the land, paid slave wages, and finally overthrew democratically elected governments that wanted to give the working stiff a fair shake.

I love my country, it's the government and the corporatocracy I hate. I consider myself a patriot in the true spirit of guys like Thomas Paine and Paul Revere, not like some mealy-mouthed politico who's trying to score points by scaring people about illegals. Sure there will always be people who come here to live off the dole, but for every one of them there are four or five people who are busting their humps to send money home to feed their families. Wouldn't you do the same if your kids were hungry? And BTW, there are plenty of Americans who live off the dole, and alot of them call themselves politicians...

I agree. Shoot anyone who has a clean smiling face.

 

[gr8scott72]

Scott,

Look around, bro, we're already halfway to being a third world country, and it's gonna' get worse. Drive through downtown Detroit sometime. The root problem isn't illegal immigration, that's just a symptom. The problem is globalization where the big boys control the world economy. We only see what effects us here, and in other parts of the world they have their own problems, but it's all related...

You right though, there was plenty of poverty in Central America before nafta, and if you read a little history you'll see that people like the Rockerfellers, Dulleses, Bushes and their buddies own big fruit companies that bought up all the land, paid slave wages, and finally overthrew democratically elected governments that wanted to give the working stiff a fair shake.

I love my country, it's the government and the corporatocracy I hate. I consider myself a patriot in the true spirit of guys like Thomas Paine and Paul Revere, not like some mealy-mouthed politico who's trying to score points by scaring people about illegals. Sure there will always be people who come here to live off the dole, but for every one of them there are four or five people who are busting their humps to send money home to feed their families. Wouldn't you do the same if your kids were hungry? And BTW, there are plenty of Americans who live off the dole, and alot of them call themselves politicians...

Your beef with big, corrupt government is legitimate. That should be addressed at the pole. I do my best to vote for the right man for the job.

Illegals is entirelly different. There are LAWS against it and they are not being inforced. Not that people are trying to leave this country to go to mexico, but what do you think they would do if you were there illegally and doing something to harm their country?

I would do anything to provide for my family but if that means breaking the law AND I get caught, I would be willing to suffer the punishment of what I was breaking. We are doing nothing about it.

Scare people about illegal imigration? Dude, it's for real. The illegals were bidding $100-$200 for $1000 tree jobs after Ike. How can any legitimate business compete with that? I didn't see a single lawn care company while in Houston that wasn't all Hispanics. Were they all illegal? I bet most of them were not.

I'm not mad at the illegals for trying to make money. I'm mad at business owners hiring them, homeowners awarding jobs to them because they are the low bidders, and the government for not doing anything about it. It IS hurting the small business owner and THAT is who keeps this country going.

 

[Mapleman]

Scott,

I hear everything you're saying. I worked Hurricane Andrew in the Coral Gables area near U of M. Got the first job as soon as we pulled into town, working for a vice president of an international bank. He had a big ficus blow over on his roof. We lightened it up and raised it off without a crane. Then we couldn't find another job because crews with Cubans working at $6/hour were doing all the easy stuff. Rather than getting pissed off, I passed on all the easy work, and concentrated on the truly nasty stuff, using that first job as a reference. Had to drive around just a little to find the scary big blow downs that were lodged in roofs. The lawn jockeys with saws and fly-by-nighters couldn't handle that stuff, so only the pros were there, and we all made sure we were getting compensated.

I know plenty of home grown tree outfits without comp or liability who because they have low overhead, undercut everyone else, just like the guys who hire illegals. I also know really big tree services who do both utility and residential work who can afford to break even or take a loss on some residential jobs to lock up an area. So it's just not illegals who are the problem here. I guess I'm fortunate that in Vermont, except for dairy workers, we don't have a big influx of illegal immigration. When there is competition from the undercutters, it forces you to be creative...

 

[ropensaddle]

Your beef with big, corrupt government is legitimate. That should be addressed at the pole. I do my best to vote for the right man for the job.

Illegals is entirelly different. There are LAWS against it and they are not being inforced. Not that people are trying to leave this country to go to mexico, but what do you think they would do if you were there illegally and doing something to harm their country?

I would do anything to provide for my family but if that means breaking the law AND I get caught, I would be willing to suffer the punishment of what I was breaking. We are doing nothing about it.

Scare people about illegal imigration? Dude, it's for real. The illegals were bidding $100-$200 for $1000 tree jobs after Ike. How can any legitimate business compete with that? I didn't see a single lawn care company while in Houston that wasn't all Hispanics. Were they all illegal? I bet most of them were not.

I'm not mad at the illegals for trying to make money. I'm mad at business owners hiring them, homeowners awarding jobs to them because they are the low bidders, and the government for not doing anything about it. It IS hurting the small business owner and THAT is who keeps this country going.

My point exactly however the polls wont change anything because of the corrupt selection of candidates imo. Thing is I feel government is out of bounds they are supposed to serve our interests,protect us not give handouts to the rich and in my opinion they would have done way better helping the suffering people instead of bankers. We came to escape what happens each day in this great land tyranny is all I can call it. I wish someone would have seen it coming and done something sooner but when I think politics all I see is red coats.

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

You guys have got me going both ways on this one. I dont agree with illigals by any means. But from a sideline perspective, mapleman has a point too. Wal-mart is importing foriegn labor in the disguise of toys and hat racks. And its not just wal-mart. Its all of the major stores. Everywhere you go its made in china.

 

[canopyboy]

I think it's human nature for the Have-nots to want to find and pursue better opportunities. It's how this country got started and kept growing after all. Unfortunately it's also human nature for the Haves to grow complacent and lazy and not want to share the wealth or be challenged by the Have-nots. There are thousands of years of history showing how these situations pan out. But that's probably for a different forum.

I'm not saying illegal immigration isn't a problem and shouldn't be dealt with in a logical way, but I think illegals are one of the smaller issues facing this country today. There are bigger fish to fry out there (in our own country) that directly affect more people than illegal immigration.

And buying products not made here as well as supporting companies that outsource put way more US citizens out of jobs. But try to buy only made in the USA products, and you'll find is tough now days. And trying to find decent help for low wage jobs is tough in my area. Everyone seems to think they're entitled to $15 or $20 an hour to drag brush or rake leaves. But my neighbor seems to have no problem finding tons of hispanics at the government job center willing to bust their azzes for $8/hr.

You know, if I keep putting in my $.02, I'm gonna be broke soon. I hope the Guido story continues soon.