codominant stems

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If the union is visibly unstable then bracint is called for, per industry standards a cable should allways acompany a brace due to the change in moment of bend in the stem.

I have doen a few where the bracing was added for the customers piece of mind and they descided to forgo the cable. This was included in the contract that bracing was recomended and concidered standard.
 
I'm paying more attention to the codominant stem failures now, to help me recognize where the remaining risks are. The failures are almost always deep V crotches with obvious seams, just as I'm sure you who are better educated would expect. If the crotches are smooth they seemed to have about the same chances of survival as any other top or large lateral. Thanks for telling me what to watch for.

Ive added Gilman's site to my "Favorites" and I can see I'll be spending a lot of time there. Thanks again!
 
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Other factors have entered the picture specifically down there. You have to look around and see if any structure, tree or otherwise that has wind block potential has come down. This would load the tree in question with more wind than ever previously. A tree community works to share these loads. If that structure (usually tree) was touching 'your' tree always or only part of the time (during extreme loading), it was probably giving support. The farther from the pivot of the ground, the more support.

So, if a nearby tree just came down, and they were touching; your tree just increased wind loading and decreased support in a single 'move'. This alone can cause problems. If it also has weaknesses/ codoms; those factors can compound on each other and give later failure.

If lots of water in ground recently, need to determine loaded axis of the tree, and make sure roots aren't pulling out of the ground opposite lean, and/or ground sinking on the lean side at base/pivot (where forces are double loaded). 2 trees groan together at ground is codom to me; each preventing the other's roots from gaining leveraged distance opposite the lean as 1 codom branch does to another. Also, each half trying to keep the other from being round/ giving levrageable axises; if anything giving the cross axis to the loading more leverage, just as codom branchings do. Also, pushing each other apart in later growth as codoms do. Then, plus possible soil loosened from rain around these codoms at the ground connection; to further compound failures, of codoms connected at ground level.

But, after a while; you will have all survivors; with many of the sick and weak thinned from the herd. But always watch for changed conditions a tree is incurring; it's local history is important.
 
TheTreeSpyder said:
Other factors have entered the picture specifically down there. You have to look around and see if any structure, tree or otherwise that has wind block potential has come down.

Yep. Thanks, and timely. And not just Katrina damage. Lots of people moving to the "North Shore" from New Orleans, lots of trees being bulldozed to make room for subdivisions.

TheTreeSpyder said:
If lots of water in ground recently, need to determine loaded axis of the tree, and make sure roots aren't pulling out of the ground opposite lean, and/or ground sinking on the lean side at base/pivot (where forces are double loaded).

Very little rain since Katrina, actually a drought. But I've been using root pull as a guideline for removing ramaining weakened trees when necessary and I will watch the rains when they come (as they soon will, South Louisiana style) as per your advice.

TheTreeSpyder said:
2 trees groan together at ground is codom to me; each preventing the other's roots from gaining leveraged distance opposite the lean as 1 codom branch does to another. Also, each half trying to keep the other from being round/ giving levrageable axises; if anything giving the cross axis to the loading more leverage, just as codom branchings do. Also, pushing each other apart in later growth as codoms do. Then, plus possible soil loosened from rain around these codoms at the ground connection; to further compound failures, of codoms connected at ground level.

Gotchta. A little off the thread, but your comment on trees grown together brings it to mind. What do you think about this?

I've got a 14" sweet gum sub-dominant to a 24" white oak and the trunks are only 12" apart. The oaks are usually very shallow rooted in our heavy clay soil, but the sweet gums are often deeply rooted (sweet gums often drop frequent "Tap" roots off of extensive shallow surface roots, I've tried to dig several stumps out of the ground and it's always been a fight).

I have left the sweet gum next to the oak hoping the deeper roots of the sweet gum are tangled in the oak and will help to hold it up. Is this reasonable in your experience? The oak/sweet gum combo is only 30 feet West of a house, and it has lost windbreak (1) from a couple of other nice oaks that fell away from the house in Katrina and (2) from trees removed for a new subdivision 150 feet West. The oak suffered 50%+ canopy loss from Katrina (one side of a codominant stem, but above the crotch, and some additional branches) but it was a beautyful tree and good shade for the house. Hate to lose what's left if it has a chance.

Thanks for the help.
 
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Fireaxman said:
(sweet gums often drop frequent "Tap" roots off of extensive shallow surface roots,
I have left the sweet gum next to the oak hoping the deeper roots of the sweet gum are tangled in the oak and will help to hold it up. Is this reasonable in your experience? The oak suffered 50%+ canopy loss from Katrina (one side of a codominant stem, but above the crotch, Hate to lose what's left if it has a chance. .
I would hate that too. Prune the sweetgum away form the less vigorous oak. Yes the roots of the gum may be stabilizing the roots of the oak. The "Tap" roots coming off laterals roots are called "sinker" roots. Many sp. do this.
 
Good info arborists - pictures of young split to monitor...

For some reason (Ma Nature), this hickory of mine split, and actually has a long lateral near the top reaching to the east. As I stated, I am not going to prune this tree anymore, just let it do its thing.

The other one is the parent to the first one; I have a swing in it, and the boys spend lots of time in this area, so I get in it at least every other year.

Maybe not super scientific, but a small case study...

Everyone have a good Monday; probably no climbing here in Wisconsin - very, very wet...
 

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