converting tracked ATV to hydro drive

[lapeer20m]

What exactly is the model of this contraption. By reading I was assuming Argo honey badger but that didn't get me any where on Google except for the interesting facts about what the real honey badgers are and how the will fight full grown lions and literally neuter the and have lion oysters for breakfast!

It's a French Canadian vehicle called a passe partout, translated "go anywhere." I just thought that honey badger was a much more manly name. Its not amphibious.

There is not a ton of info online about these machines. The Quebec company was eventualy sold to a michigan firm and mine was one of the later models to be built in michigan before the company dissolved. From what I've read, the quality of the components improved significantly over time, with the early machines having serious reliability issues.

The drive system is brilliant yet complex and contains some hard to find items like automotive clutches from a Renault car. I do think that if the hydro swap does not work well I can rebuild the old drive system and make it functional.

Most of the parts are easy to find. The tracks are simply Goodyear conveyor belt. There is a realatively simple cog that drives the track. All of the bogie wheels are available at tractor supply or on amazon.

For those sho have not seen it tet, Here is a video of this machine in action when I was testing a firewood sled. This video was filmed with the old powertrane.

 

[Jim Timber]

Did this originally have reverse?

 

[zogger]

It's a French Canadian vehicle called a passe partout, translated "go anywhere." I just thought that honey badger was a much more manly name. Its not amphibious.

There is not a ton of info online about these machines. The Quebec company was eventualy sold to a michigan firm and mine was one of the later models to be built in michigan before the company dissolved. From what I've read, the quality of the components improved significantly over time, with the early machines having serious reliability issues.

The drive system is brilliant yet complex and contains some hard to find items like automotive clutches from a Renault car. I do think that if the hydro swap does not work well I can rebuild the old drive system and make it functional.

Most of the parts are easy to find. The tracks are simply Goodyear conveyor belt. There is a realatively simple cog that drives the track. All of the bogie wheels are available at tractor supply or on amazon.

For those sho have not seen it tet, Here is a video of this machine in action when I was testing a firewood sled. This video was filmed with the old powertrane.

Nice photography and real cool machine.

 

[lapeer20m]

Did this originally have reverse?

Yes. It has a gearbox similar to an Argo or a John Deere gator. 2 forward speeds and one reverse. The transmission was powered by a cvt "snowmobile clutch".

Unlike a gator , the gearbox did not have a differential. Steering was supposed to be accomplished by moving a lever that disengaged a clutch and simultaneously applied a brake.

In reality the brakes were difficult to adjust and they generally applied inadequate force and the clutch sometimes would not fully disengage. It drove well in the snow because the machine would tend to steer even if the brakes did not work because of the increased rolling resistance of the deep snow.

Hydraulic brakes would be a significant improvement but not as significant as hydraulic drive.

Ill try to make a video of the setup sometime.

 

[lapeer20m]

Two steps forward one step back....

I reinforced the mounting brackets and created a makeshift idler sprocket and took her for a test drive.

She drove awesome! Steering was exactly what I had hoped it would be. I could even turn one track forward while spinning the opposite track in reverse.

Then the engine stopped abruptly. Something really bad happened. The engine will not turn, not even with a 3 foot cheater bar attached to the crank.

I decided this was a great time to stop for lunch.

I have a significantly smaller engine I can mount for now but not sure if I have the appropriate sized pulley. The two engines have different sized crankshafts of course. The new engine may not have enough hp.

Time to start searching Craigslist.

Grrr!

 

[jags]

Let it cool very well and then hit the cylinders with lube (brake fluid works well for this) and see if you can get it loose. Any idea on why it seized up? Too hot? Not oiling?, etc.

 

[7sleeper]

Ouch! That doesn't sound too good. Don't know if it would be a good idea but have you thought of one of those smaller diesel engines? That would give you a lot of torque at low rpm and they sip fuel. They had some really cheap a while back.

Good luck!

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[lapeer20m]

I just shot this quick video illustrating how the ppt drive system works (or doesn't work...)

 

[lapeer20m]

Let it cool very well and then hit the cylinders with lube (brake fluid works well for this) and see if you can get it loose. Any idea on why it seized up? Too hot? Not oiling?, etc.

I'm still in the research and development stage. After mounting the drive motors, I was limited in the placement of the power plant (hydro pumps and Kawasaki engine) by the length of the hydraulic hoses. I temporarily set the power plant on top of the honey badger in an effort to test the hydro drive. In doing so the engine was on a bit of an angle. Although I checked the oil my guess is that the angle was severe enough to starve the oil pump. It was hindered by not having the exhaust connected which in turn required me to wear ear protection. If things were quieter I may have heard some early ticking/knocking preventing what I now believe is a tragedy!

It was a really nice Kawasaki full pressure lubrication commercial engine.

 

[lapeer20m]

Ouch! That doesn't sound too good. Don't know if it would be a good idea but have you thought of one of those smaller diesel engines? That would give you a lot of torque at low rpm and they sip fuel. They had some really cheap a while back.

Good luck!

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I would love to find a 15-30hp diesel for cheap. I have seen some small Kubota diesels used for under $1k.

 

[7sleeper]

How much hp is the gas engine?

I was thinking more like one of those lifan/yanmar clones. Something like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-10HP-AIR-COOLED-SINGLE-CYLINDER-DIESEL-ENGINE-10-HP-/180700361852

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[jags]

"...preventing what I now believe is a tragedy!"

You might still want to check into it. I seized up a 70hp boat motor (water pump). After I looked into it - there was no harm done. I realize that I was lucky - maybe you are too.

 

[lapeer20m]

SUCCESS!

she is far from finished, but I have proof of concept now.

The new temporary engine is from a push lawnower. It's a Briggs intek 6.5 hp. It runs wierd. I suspect that in its original configuration it uses the mower blade to supplement the lightweight flywheel.

It's slow and I'm walking behind the honey badger using the commercial mower controls. The speed controls have a severely limited range of motion with this setup. When I get the power pack remounted and new controls it should travel at leadt as fast as a riding lawn tractor.

Here is a video from tonight's test :

 

[Jim Timber]

Thanks for the video, that's very helpful.

 

[ponyexpress976]

On those commercial zero turns surprisingly little of the power available is used to actually move the machine....most of it is taken up by the deck. Seems like the little 6.5 was doing ok...might be a little slow, nothing you couldn't fix with an 8-10 hp diesel and different size pulley (to help move a little more fluid). An oil cooler for the hydro's might not be a bad idea either.

 

[firebrick43]

The low speed torque of a diesel is immaterial here. The hydraulic pumps used on zero turn mowers needs to turn at there design speed meaning the engine is always at 3600 rpm. One throttles the pump not the engine. While a good diesel may be 20-25% more fuel efficient for the constant loads of a large zero turn mower remember that is more for the constant loads of the deck. With lighter varying loads the diesel doesn't have quite as an advantage over a gas motor. Throw in the higher fuel cost ~15% and higher purchase cost, higher noise, harder starting in cold weather, and the most important fact that his pumps need a vertical shaft engine recall many vertical shaft diesels.

Lapeer20m I researched the passé partout and your right, not much there. Two questions.
1.
You said that the track was conveyor belting. My experience with conveyor belting is that the metal lacing to join it wouldn't stand up to the loads of a vehicle. Is the belting overlapped and bolted together and the resulting bump just lived with??

2. The drive lugs for the track appear to be bolted on as well. Are they they readily available?

 

[nathon918]

The low speed torque of a diesel is immaterial here. The hydraulic pumps used on zero turn mowers needs to turn at there design speed meaning the engine is always at 3600 rpm. One throttles the pump not the engine. While a good diesel may be 20-25% more fuel efficient for the constant loads of a large zero turn mower remember that is more for the constant loads of the deck. With lighter varying loads the diesel doesn't have quite as an advantage over a gas motor. Throw in the higher fuel cost ~15% and higher purchase cost, higher noise, harder starting in cold weather, and the most important fact that his pumps need a vertical shaft engine recall many vertical shaft diesels.

Lapeer20m I researched the passé partout and your right, not much there. Two questions.
1.
You said that the track was conveyor belting. My experience with conveyor belting is that the metal lacing to join it wouldn't stand up to the loads of a vehicle. Is the belting overlapped and bolted together and the resulting bump just lived with??

2. The drive lugs for the track appear to be bolted on as well. Are they they readily available?

kubota makes diesel zero turns... the only thing that would change with the lower rpm is flow rate of the pump, also not all pumps are rated at 3600 rpm...
why would he need to keep a vertical shaft engine? its just a hydro pump, other than maybe a space issue, theres no reason he cant use a horizontal shaft engine.
now im just guessing here, but i would imagine those tracks are vulcanized, and not laced together, also there plenty of conveyors that have much much more power than this vehicle puts out that uses metal lacing, sandwich/bolted, and vulcanized joints.
dont know about the drive lugs though, they also may be vulcanized to the belt???

 

[lapeer20m]

The tracks are overlapped and bolted through.

These pumps did spin at 3,600 rpm in the original setup. One could spin an engine at a lower rpm and utilize a larger drive pulley. This would allow an engine to spin at 1800 rpm and the pumps at 3600 to maximize fuel economy, especially if the engine was larger than needed to drive the pumps and motors at their max potential.

The drive pieces are some sort of plastic and they are bolted through the track. I don't have a good source for them. New ones could likely be made from metal easier than plastic. Especially if only a couple were needed. If they were all steel there may be a weight issue.

I drive a vw tdi and have a diesel backhoe so i know diesels. Ive been driving various diesel vehicles for many years. I like the idea of a small diesel but price and cold weather starting would be my primary concerns. A 10hp gas engine is nominally free while a diesel is closer to $1k.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I like the idea of a small diesel but price and cold weather starting would be my primary concerns. A 10hp gas engine is nominally free while a diesel is closer to $1k.

I have numerous diesels around here, I have NO problem starting them in the winter, in fact I MUCH prefer a diesel, my sno-blower is diesel and it starts in cold weather just fine and always works perfectly.

SR

 

[7sleeper]

As I showed above 10hp diesels don't cost 1k! And starting in cold weather on a diesel with a glow plug usually shoudn't be much of a problem at all.

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