Cordless with a 0.050 Bar?

[HandLogger]

As the cordless saws have been around for a while now, I'd like to ask the tree service guys if anyone has attempted installing a 0.050" guide bar in place of the 0.043" bars that the cordless saws seem to come with? As we're already users of their cordless tools, I'm seriously considering a Milwaukee M18 2826-20 14" Top Handle saw for small/quick work, but I'd also appreciate hearing from anyone on the board who's tried this with another brand as well.

The point is that the 0.043" chains I've researched seem to be a consumer price gouge. We already have 0.050" 3/8 91VXL on a reel that we use with our MS200Ts. It works very well, so my thought is to stay with this type of chain.

Thank you kindly for your time ~
HL

 

[OM617YOTA]

Not a pro, but my Kobalt 80v runs standard 3/8 0.050 low pro just fine.

 

[Franny K]

On the 3/8lp 0.043 or in Stihl 61pmm3 the Stihl version is quite superior to the Oregon or what comes with Makita. 44,50, or 55dl so the loops are kind of Stihl specific. Some of the 0.043 3/8lp, Carlton and some of the economy import actually do have the same cutters as the 0.050 offerings.

I have not seen the drive sprocket that Milwaukee uses. The direct drive as opposed to reduction gear Makita and Husqvarna sprockets share the same round with two flats. Husqvarna has the new sp21 bars and chains and sprocket which is a mini .325 it is pretty impressive and better than the Oregon 80txl in my short use even if it was on the gasoline side. I have experimented years ago with the 536itli or something like that. If the cut was say 10" the 0.043 3/8lp must get bound up with sawdust, I got the fastest with 63ps3 and 13rm stihl but I suspect they made the battery discharge faster as well. The higher end supposedly pro Husqvarna pole saws use 0.050 3/8lp as they come. Your battery saw likely would like the 91vx or 91px instead of the 91vxl which has a bigger utter.

 

[pro94lt]

I've got a 120i husqvarna, with .050 I use in the summer at the grapple truck/landing... it does its job but the .043 lp is much better. 1/4 pitch would be the best...

 

[HandLogger]

On the 3/8lp 0.043 or in Stihl 61pmm3 the Stihl version is quite superior to the Oregon or what comes with Makita. 44,50, or 55dl so the loops are kind of Stihl specific. Some of the 0.043 3/8lp, Carlton and some of the economy import actually do have the same cutters as the 0.050 offerings.

I have not seen the drive sprocket that Milwaukee uses. The direct drive as opposed to reduction gear Makita and Husqvarna sprockets share the same round with two flats. Husqvarna has the new sp21 bars and chains and sprocket which is a mini .325 it is pretty impressive and better than the Oregon 80txl in my short use even if it was on the gasoline side. I have experimented years ago with the 536itli or something like that. If the cut was say 10" the 0.043 3/8lp must get bound up with sawdust, I got the fastest with 63ps3 and 13rm stihl but I suspect they made the battery discharge faster as well. The higher end supposedly pro Husqvarna pole saws use 0.050 3/8lp as they come. Your battery saw likely would like the 91vx or 91px instead of the 91vxl which has a bigger utter.

My reading is showing that Stihl recommends a 44-DL chain for use on 12" guide bars ( click here ). Considering that the Stihl 61PMM3 (Picco Micro Mini) chain is 0.043" gauge and 3/8" Pitch (0.375"), will it even work with the Milwaukee M18 saw? I'm thinking that a sprocket change is definitely required, at a minimum, but how "universal" are the sprockets? Please feel free to educate me.


Specifications for Milwaukee Cordless Saw Chains:

 

[Franny K]

A) 3/8 pitch in chainsaw chain really is not .375 pitch. I have no idea why the size standardization ended up at the distance between drive links of 0.366 times two.

I gave you a poor response before. Post 1 does not say the pitch of a Milwaukee M18 2826-20 14". My Makita 18v battery saws come with essentially Oregon 90px which can be upgraded by using the Stihl 61pmm3 I recommended, the gauge of that is 0.043.

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/products/2826-20T
You did better than I could as for navigating their website, I can see where to get documentation but could not get the owners manual or parts sheet before getting frustrated. If you can find the parts sheet see what if any choices there are from Milwaukee as to sprocket. You would need a different sprocket to run the 91vxl. And a different bar one for the ms200 you mention would not be hard to modify (I am assuming here the slot for the stud or studs is the same) and likely better than brand x. The Stihl bar for that vxl will have a 9 tooth nose sprocket where brand x is almost always 7 tooth.

What does this mean "consumer price gouge." In Husqvarna a 16" called length loop is the same price with 4 more cutters that isn't a price gouge to me. i will give you that the 100-foot rolls seem not offered.

Could you provide a link to what reviews you read about 0.043 chain that is the class that you put a little picture of above as opposed. to the 90px or that rebranded stuff.


This is incredibly good stuff, I think it is somewhat better than the similar Oregon 80txl.
https://www.husqvarna.com/us/chains/x-cut-sp21g325-mini-pixel-pitch-043-gauge/
Check your loop sizes the above link is directed to be the same as the little picture in the just above post.

 

[telecasterfool]

I have a small tree service. I use two Ryobi 40v saws, both with 14" 3/8 lopro .050 chains. I would equate these saws to my 33-35cc saws. I use the same chains on my echo cs-355t and cs-360t. I do use .043 chain, but only on my echo cs-271t (27cc), and Makita 18v top handle, both 12". on spur drives you can switch from .043 to .050, but the bar must match your chain gauge.

 

[HandLogger]

My apologies for the lack of spec data in the OP, @Franny K . There was a time factor involved with buying the cordless saw, so, considering the prices I was seeing for replacement chain, I pulled the proverbial "trigger" on the Milwaukee 2826-20C (12") variant instead of the 14" model. At least the 12" loops were a bit cheaper.

As much chain as we've gone through, I never really pulled a mic out and measured the pitch of 3/8" chain, so your words about actual pitch are very informative - thank you.

As for the phrase "consumer price gouge," it's my theory that Milwaukee expects to sell most of these saws to consumers that won't be doing a lot of cutting. This being the case, the idea of purchasing over-priced replacement saw chain doesn't sink in in the same way that it will for folks who actually do a lot of cutting. Anyway, the prices I've seen for the Milwaukee replacement chains is very high when I compare it to the [larger] chain that we cut and put together ourselves; hence, the keen interest in the possibility of employing the Oregon 91VXL (3/8" pitch / 0.050" gauge) chain that we've already bought and paid for.

However, if it's ill-advised to go the 0.050" gauge and/or the 3/8" pitch route(s), I'd be happy to try out the Husky X-CUT SP21G chain you recommended. Do you foresee any problems using it with the Milwaukee/Oregon bar that comes with the Milwaukee M18 top handle saws? Considering that the gauge spec in the screen shot I included with my last post states "0.043-inch," I would think that it should work.

I'm not clear about the link you requested, but click here to get to tech information about replacement chains for the Milwaukee top hand and rear handle M18 cordless chainsaws. Move your mouse pointer over the bold word "Milwaukee" and click on it. That should take you to several links - in the form of thumbnail photos (on the left) - that provide more information about the replacement chains for the Milwaukee M18 saws.

EDIT: I just noticed that you're located in Hull Country. Have you ever seen the GOL competitions at the fairground in Woodstock, CT?

Thank you very much for taking the time to participate in this discussion ~
HL

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[Franny K]

I see what you mean gouge now. I would wait until you have the top handle chainsaw in hand before ordering any more chain. This is one step more than where you linked which is a variety of chains with your 2826 in big print on top. I guess this is the one you should have linked directly. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauk...hain-with-51-Drive-Links-49-16-2742/320805065

If it has a 7 tooth drive sprocket this would be the .325 by .043" If you get a 6 tooth drive sprocket it will be the others 3/8 by 0.043.
Here is a good place to get Oregon chain. https://loggerchain.net/collections/80txl-oregon-speedcut-043-gauge-325-pitch-saw-chain-kits They are fast, shipping is included and did not charge me sales tax.

As to Hull country you likely mean Hull forest products in Woodstock. I went on a tour many years ago and saw a sawmill that grabbed the log by the ends and cut boards off both sides at the same time. From what I understand they don't pay all that well and most of the logs go to lots and get shipped to Canada. I may be years out of date on my info.

I have been the Woodstock fair that has had a section with a timbersports champ doing demonstrations but not to what you speak of GOL. It might be there but at a different day and time not sure.

 

[HandLogger]

As our luck would have it, @Franny K , the saw is supposed to arrive today, but we also have a big snow storm in the forecast that's supposed to commence overnight. As for the link, I wasn't really trying to get you to the exact chain we'lI need for the 12" version. Instead, I was trying to direct you to the website that I got my general information about the Milwaukee replacement chains from ... but you are correct, the saw we ordered comes with a rebadged Oregon 0.325" Pitch (Low Profile) / 0.043" Gauge / 51 Drive Link chain. This is why the X-CUT chain you recommended looks like a winner, but I will hold off on actually ordering anything (including a sprocket) for the saw until I can take a close look at it with my own eyes.

Yes, the Hull FP people made a bold attempt to start a biomass power plant in the little mountain town we own a chunk of forestland in. Unfortunately, they lost their political connection in Boston and, eventually, couldn't get the plant approved.

As for the Games of Logging (GOL) competitions, we drove out to Woodstock, CT, a couple of times in late-summer [circa 2008-2010] to see the logging events at the Ag Show. This is where we first met the guy who used to put on the GOL logging certification courses I later completed. I've been felling trees since my days as a kid on the farm, but I do have to admit that I learned some newer [read: safer] ways to get the job done via those GOL logging safety courses ... but I digress.

Back to the saw in question ... I watched a very informative video today in which two tree service guys were testing out cordless top handle saws from Stihl, Husky and (2) Milwaukees. They were filming themselves as they were actually doing a residential job involving two very tall pines, in real time, so it went a very long way toward showing what all four saws are actually capable of [read: they included a Milwaukee Cordless "Hatchet" saw in the video]. In short, the main climber/cutter hated the fact that the "heavy" Stihl has too much safety tech installed, but he liked the fact that the Milwaukee saw had plenty of torque and, consequently, was hard to stall. In the end, though, he preferred his own Husky cordless saw - that he's been using for quite some time - due to its light weight and its high chain speed. I will say, though, that the Husky was clearly pretty easy to stall. All the guy had to do was push the saw into pretty much any given cut above a certain diameter - more than say 2.5 inches in O.D. - to make it stop running. I wasn't very impressed by that.

I'm happy that I started this thread. I'm getting a lot of interesting information herein about chain options for our first cordless saw.

 

[thenne1713]

As the cordless saws have been around for a while now, I'd like to ask the tree service guys if anyone has attempted installing a 0.050" guide bar in place of the 0.043" bars that the cordless saws seem to come with? As we're already users of their cordless tools, I'm seriously considering a Milwaukee M18 2826-20 14" Top Handle saw for small/quick work, but I'd also appreciate hearing from anyone on the board who's tried this with another brand as well.

The point is that the 0.043" chains I've researched seem to be a consumer price gouge. We already have 0.050" 3/8 91VXL on a reel that we use with our MS200Ts. It works very well, so my thought is to stay with this type of chain.

Thank you kindly for your time ~
HL

I have never had any nor ever measured, but if the cutters also slightly narrower on the 043, then I wud expect possibly a 10% better battery life w/ narrower chain?... and expect THAT was reason why they selected 043? My $0.02

 

[HandLogger]

I have never had any nor ever measured, but if the cutters also slightly narrower on the 043, then I wud expect possibly a 10% better battery life w/ narrower chain?... and expect THAT was reason why they selected 043? My $0.02

This is a solid theory, but I'll tell you what ... once I've put the saw through its paces doing the work it was intended for, I'll get back with my impressions and more information, including measurements of both the Oregon 91VXL chain ( 0.375 / 0.050 ) we normally use with our gas-powered top handle saws and the rebadged Oregon chain that the Milwaukee 2826 M18 Cordless Top Handle saw comes with ( 0.325 / 0.043 ). As I mentioned before, I've never taken the time to actually make my own measurements, and the results could prove to be interesting.

 

[Franny K]

I don't measure it either I just start with 1640 drive links in 100 feet. To be really fussy Stihl chain claims to be pre stretched one segment at a time in the manufacturing process and the initial adjustment vs say Oregon seems to bear this out.

Sort of unrelated I was watching videos on youtube yesterday and Husqvarna has 1/4 pitch 0.043 chain (European market source) sp11. I thought this mini 1/4 pitch the 71 series in Stihl was Stihl only, or aftermarket for Stihl. I wonder if the 1/4 inch sprockets for my battery stuff 8 tooth from Husky and 9 tooth from Makita are for this stuff or the 13rm in Stihl or 25ap from Oregon or this mini stuff. Stihl uses a different first number and says drive sprockets should be specific hence the differing first number.

 

[HandLogger]

The measurements I was referring to in Post No. 12 are prompted by comments about pitch variations and questions about "narrower" cutters (all on this thread). For example, @Franny K , stated that 3/8" pitch isn't actually 0.375-inches ( in Post No. 6 ). Nothing personal, but now I'm curious about what one really gets with the various chains we've discussed herein. Once I have that information recorded, I'll get back to the thread.

 

[Franny K]

1/4 comes out to 0.250 I think it is 2400 drive links per 100 feet
.325 is exact, 0.404 is exact, for some reason 3/8 is not.

There is no rule that says the tie strap hole center to hole center and the drive link hole to hole distance is the same or any special ratio. Generally the cutter/tie strap distance is larger than the drive link hole spacing. Hence splicing parts may or may not interchange. There is also no rule that the cutter size and the drive link thickness that goes into the bar slot need to have some correlation as I typed out in post 3 above. Even the words "low profile" is trademarked by Oregon.

Once you get the top handle model MILWAUKEE 2826 I am curious is direct drive or reduction gear and what the sprocket looks like. As in how it attaches to the shaft.

 

[HandLogger]

Although the new Milwaukee 2826 M18 Cordless Top Handle Saw is here, there's still one catch. I've decided to give it as a present to someone who's very important to our operation, so it won't be coming out of its box for another 10 days or so. Regardless, I will get plenty of time [later this month] to put it to work and give it a very close inspection.

 

[Seachaser]

Although the new Milwaukee 2826 M18 Cordless Top Handle Saw is here, there's still one catch. I've decided to give it as a present to someone who's very important to our operation, so it won't be coming out of its box for another 10 days or so. Regardless, I will get plenty of time [later this month] to put it to work and give it a very close inspection.

You won’t be disappointed. It’s a pruner, not a chainsaw, so treat as such. Its happy place is about 6” and below. I have lots of pruning to do, but i like clearing out invasive species such as big privet until I get my big saws in there.

 

[thenne1713]

Last year, had 3x 40ft oak limbs fall from ice, up to 12-15" at base where they snapped. Fighting backache, Not wanting the bending w/ big saw, I tried pruning saw on weed-eater and was AMAZED at GREAT job that little 0.25 chain did, even on the 12" stuff.