Could a solo persons belt bleed-kit save lives?

[TheJollyLogger]

That is a great idea. As an EMT, I think that would save your life.

As an EMT, in the event of a catastrophic injury, would you recommend a climber attempt to treat himself in the tree or use that energy to get to the ground asap? The way I had my climbing rig set up, I made sure I could release my lanyard and rappel down one handed, so probably talking 10 seconds low end, 30 seconds max to the ground.

 

[camel2019]

For a major arterial bleed, the only hope is a hemostatic dressing. EG: https://www.celoxmedical.com/cx-product/celox-gauze/

You literally stuff it in the hole. Pack it in as tight as possible. Hurts like hell. But stops the bleeding and keeps the patient alive. More effective and less long-term damage than a tourniquet.

Old school thought process people say tourniquets should only be on for 10min but we have come to find out they can be on much longer then that Without long term effect.

 

[Chiefhobbs]

As an EMT, in the event of a catastrophic injury, would you recommend a climber attempt to treat himself in the tree or use that energy to get to the ground asap? The way I had my climbing rig set up, I made sure I could release my lanyard and rappel down one handed, so probably talking 10 seconds low end, 30 seconds max to the ground.

I would think getting on the ground. One, so get get light headed and fall and two, you’ll do a better job of stopping blood loss and calming down. You still need to get 911 Responding asap.

 

[torch]

Looks largely the same as the Quick-clot I carry.

Similar, two different active ingredients. Quikclot uses a clay that triggers clotting, Celox uses ground snail shells that form a gel that swells. Quikclot residue must eventually be flushed from the wound, Celox is absorbed by the body.

Studies suggest that Quikclot is more effective, provided that the instructions can be followed. Such as when applied by trained person(s) in a stable environment. Oddly, the inverse is true when instructions cannot be followed to the letter -- Celox has a higher success rate in less-than-optimal situations (eg: insufficient pressure, early movement). This might be the case when self-treating while hanging from a rope in a tree.

Regardless, either product is far better than a wet t-shirt.

 

[OM617YOTA]

My main wood cutting buddy is allergic to iodine and likely to shellfish. That's why we specifically went with Quick-Clot.

 

[Bearcreek]

Regardless, either product is far better than a wet t-shirt.

Or a maxi pad.

 

[ken morgan]

Yes, please do look it up. Maxi pads and tampons are designed to absorb blood, while doing absolutely nothing to stop it.

oh look at the internet expert. stop the bleeding by any means. easiest most accessible item is a maxi pad, sold in every 7-11, family mart and every other convenience store. no they are not super clotters designed to clot up, but a maxi pad coupled with direct pressure will stop the bleeding. Vice reading about it, actually try it and then prove me wrong. experience speaks in this regards to your internet drivel.

 

[Bearcreek]

oh look at the internet expert. stop the bleeding by any means. easiest most accessible item is a maxi pad, sold in every 7-11, family mart and every other convenience store. no they are not super clotters designed to clot up, but a maxi pad coupled with direct pressure will stop the bleeding. Vice reading about it, actually try it and then prove me wrong. experience speaks in this regards to your internet drivel.

I'm not an expert. Never claimed to be. Which is why I've sought out and taken an extensive amount of training from and listened to the advice of people who are experts. If a maxi pad is literally the only thing you have, sure, use it. It's better than nothing at all. But it's ridiculous to intentionally put one in a trauma kit, when there are far batter options that are actually designed to stop bleeding, not just soak it up.

 

[ken morgan]

I'm not an expert. Never claimed to be. Which is why I've sought out and taken an extensive amount of training from and listened to the advice of people who are experts. If a maxi pad is literally the only thing you have, sure, use it. It's better than nothing at all. But it's ridiculous to intentionally put one in a trauma kit, when there are far batter options that are actually designed to stop bleeding, not just soak it up.

the discussion had wandered back and forth over what was available and into what could be used in an expedient fashion. ambulance EMT/Wilderness first responder trained. all expired six years ago when I changed jobs.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Quikclot is expensive too, around $15 for one packet. I'm fortunate that I can have a packet of Quikclot, a CAT tourniquet(make sure you buy from North American Rescue, don't risk getting a fake), and an Israeli bandage on hand, and likely never use them. I know lots of guys where the $60 for that stuff and a pouch to keep it on your belt is out of reach, especially now with prices on everything skyrocketing. Better to have some maxi pads and a roll of duct tape than nothing. Puts you way ahead of any first aid kit you'll find at Walmart.

 

[Bearcreek]

the discussion had wandered back and forth over what was available and into what could be used in an expedient fashion. ambulance EMT/Wilderness first responder trained. all expired six years ago when I changed jobs.

Maybe I misunderstood your post. I got the impression you were recommending carrying maxi pads in a trauma kit.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

A number of years ago at a Campus with many established and new hardwood trees I was cutting dead trees for my own profit. A staff member of the facility asked if I could meet him on a particular morning to guide him in some tree removal work. So at about 8:30 AM I drive to the determined spot and not see any one but could hear a chain saw idling. After a few minutes search discover the climber in a tree about 40 feet up hanging upside down with the saw running still attached to his belt. I quickly strapped on my spurs and made my way up to him. I unbuckled the saw turned him right side up and lowered him down to the ground then notified paramedics. My guess was that after discovering him in the precarious situation it took me ten minutes to get to him Apparently a limb he was cutting spun around and hit him in the head rendering him unconscious. Am pretty sure him being left that way for much longer would have ended his life. It appears that a climber injured severely in a tree with out a competent grounds person to give him aid the climber has few options. I have seen various Velcro type straps that could be a life saver. Some times just good duct tape but how much equipment would a climber on a routine day carry with him. Including myself many will say this is only going to take a half an hour be done soon. Thanks

 

[Urban_Arbors]

To the OP's question yes, I believe such a kit carried on you could save a life. As other's have stated earlier such kits 100 yds away in a truck or inaccessibly packed away won't do you much good when a bleed is severe enough that seconds matter. One thing that hasn't been covered in this thread yet is I suggest you can stop by any local firehouse and talk with any paramedic on shift. Bring the crew some cigars and pick their brain about it. They'll be happy to help cover the topic

 

[OM617YOTA]

Some of the paramedics and SAR people will give an "unofficial" class on emergency trauma response, too.

 

[chipper1]

As an EMT, in the event of a catastrophic injury, would you recommend a climber attempt to treat himself in the tree or use that energy to get to the ground asap? The way I had my climbing rig set up, I made sure I could release my lanyard and rappel down one handed, so probably talking 10 seconds low end, 30 seconds max to the ground.

Get out of the tree.
When minutes matter, someone to do an aerial rescue is many times hrs away.
How long would it take an experienced climber to reach you, even using your rope and if he was geared up and ready to climb vs you getting to the ground. Last thing I'd want is to be climbing your line with blood dripping down on me the whole time.
If you can get to the ground, do it.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Zero experience here, last time I climbed a tree was probably 8 years old, but get on the ground would be my response too.

Even the most imbecile groundie can put pressure on the leaky bit and call 911....... once you're on the ground.

On the flip side, even the best trained groundie, a fellow climber who happens to be on the ground that day, will take a lot longer to get to you.

I'd get on the ground.

 

[CTH-SXL]

My main wood cutting buddy is allergic to iodine and likely to shellfish. That's why we specifically went with Quick-Clot.

This is a screen shot from the Celox web site . Celox appears to be a better choice over Quick-Clot .

 

[OM617YOTA]

This is a screen shot from the Celox web site . Celox appears to be a better choice over Quick-Clot .

Yup, sounds like when it's time to rotate out the QuikClot, Celox will be the replacement. Thanks for finding that, good to know.

 

[Philbert]

Statistically, more people will be killed by the tree (or falling from it) that by a chainsaw cut, so first aid / trauma considerations should go beyond bleeding. That said, a saw (axe, etc.) can create a fatal cut.

One of the groups that I have volunteered with requires each Sawyer to carry a 'Blood Stop Kit’ in a belt pouch. They include:
- a tourniquet;
- compression ('Israeli') bandage;
- EMT shears (to remove clothing);
- gauze pads;
- roll gauze;
- first aid / medical tape;
- elastic ('ACE') bandage (to hold things in place);
- mylar ('space') blanket for shock;
- nitrile gloves.





Choose components that you are comfortable using, and understand how to use what you have - not the time to be reading small letter instructions. I suggest keeping bandaids, and other minor, but necessary first aid stuff in a separate kit, so that this is clearly for emergency use.

If you get the opportunity, attend a 'STOP THE BLEED' class, which goes beyond typical Red Cross type first aid training, or a 'wilderness first aid' class, which assumes that you are a long way away from 911 type help.
www.stopthebleed.org

Philbert

 

[Cricket]

For a major arterial bleed, the only hope is a hemostatic dressing. EG: https://www.celoxmedical.com/cx-product/celox-gauze/

You literally stuff it in the hole. Pack it in as tight as possible. Hurts like hell. But stops the bleeding and keeps the patient alive. More effective and less long-term damage than a tourniquet.

I used to work packaging Gelfoam for UpJohn/Pfixer - and my ex once had his life saved by the stuff - I was fairly impressed.