crane guys

[Toddppm]

OK I just landed a job to remove some good sized oaks that are accessible by crane, the guy's meeting me in the morning to check em out.
I've never been the climber on a crane job and haven't even worked on one since about 1991?
My guys have never done one period!
I'm planning on doing the biggest one and the first smaller one to show them but I need some pointers.
On a straight up pick do you guys like to cut straight through or still use a snap cut-cut= part way through then another cut from other side passing the first above it?
A few of these big limbs are hanging way out towards the house(spanking new, maybe $800k!)at an angle, I'm guessing we'll use a balancer type sling spread out high and low? if theres room , do you like to just cut from the bottom up as it's picked up , use a top notch or cut from the top down and let it rip off when cut through?
What else?

 

[treeclimber165]

Todd,
Crane removals are the one situation where many normal rigging methods are altered. The two most important things to remember are to not shock load the crane (cutting straight through a limb and letting it rip off while swinging wildly from the hook) and to engineer your cuts so you are well clear of the load when the operator starts to move it.
For horozontal limbs I like to tip-tie the lead (so it is butt heavy) and notch for the sky. I make my undercut out from the notch so the butt will not freefall. The operator will need to pick up slightly on the lead as you cut so your saw doesn't get pinched, but DO NOT let him stand the limb up untill you are clear. Once your notch and back-cut are made, you can put your saw away and move away. Give the signal for the crane to remove the piece. It will stand up and then separate once the notch closes and the hinge breaks. Keep in mind that if the notch is too large then the limb may not break free and you will need to finish the cut so the crane can lift the lead. This is dangerous since you will be right there when the butt end comes free, so try not to make your notches too big!

For vertical or near-vertical loads, I also hook high then make overlapping cuts. Make the first cut on the opposite side from where the cable connects to the lead. Second opposing cut should be above the first cut and on the side of the cable connection. This way the crane can lift if your saw gets pinched, and the step will keep the butt from coming back into you. Once your cuts are made, drop down clear of the lead and signal the operator to lift.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

A new way I learned from Chisholm on making a picked cut is to come in with your backcut parralel to the ground. This forms a shelf for the wood to sit on if there is any problem, like a boom sag from a bit too much weight.

 

[Toddppm]

Sounds good, didn't even think about last cut on the cable side, would have figured that out after pinching the saw I'm sure! Brian what do you mean you make your undercut out from the notch?
Good idea JPS

 

[kf_tree]

todd
does the crane guy you plan on useing have experiance doing tree work?

 

[Toddppm]

That was my first question! They say they do alot of tree work, I told him upfront we're inexperienced, I don't care if it takes all day as long as it's safe I'll still make $$ Should only take 2 or 3 hours total though.

 

[treeclimber165]

Todd, I was trying to say that I leave a step for the butt to sit on so it doesn't swing down. I typically make my undercut about 2"-3" further out the limb from my notch on a typical 10"-12" lead, depending on the elasticity of the wood.

As long as you have that step to catch the butt, you can make the notch kinda small (narrow). If the lead breaks off before completely vertical, it will still sit on the step untill the crane picks it completely clear.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I just removed two large trees with a crane yesterday, and the whole time I was thinking how easy it was. There is nothing hard about it, except you should know the hand signals, that takes about 1 minute to learn.
One thing I did, was to have the operator set the ball right over the tree and tell me how much he could lift in that position, to give me a refrerence. I also had a log chart to give me a rough idea of how much things weigh, it was way off.
The biggest problem is getting spoiled and losing the real skills that you can develop without a crane.
My biggest piece was 6800 lbs.

 

[treeclimber165]

Another good trick that I've done for years on crane removals- I bring an extra loop runner or lanyard up with me so I can hang my saw while I run out a lead to set the cable. No reason to bring that extra 10 lbs out the limb when you don't need it. A handsaw can be handy to cut something out of your way if necessary, but I usually try to just bend the small stuff over so I'm not dropping a bunch of stuff around the base of the tree.

Job setup requirements- Crane placement is primary. Try to place the rotation of the crane so that he can reach all the other leads around your tie-in lead. Your tie-in lead should be the last one cut if at all possible.
Try to set up the chipper so that it is blowing away from the tree and the crane. The chipping area doesn't have to be right next to the tree, just within easy reach of the crane.

Unless you have room for your wood truck AND chipping operations at the same time, try to leave most of the wood standing until the brush is gone. That way the ground crew isn't tripping over a pile of logs and you don't have to sit and wait while logs are moved out of the way by the crane.

Plan all your picks with the crane operator before starting. Visualize every pick so you both know what order they will be taken. Some changes may occur later, but it's good to have a basic plan so you both are on the same page. Know where your tie-in is going to be and that your lifeline is not in conflict with the crane cable.

 

[Toddppm]

Yeah Mike I'm hoping it's going to be easy and spoil us
I'm going to make sure the crane operator goes over every single piece before we start wether he likes it or not, I'd better request a patient guy huh!

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Good point Brian, we park the wood truck within reach and put the wood right in the truck with the crane, no need to bring the bobcat.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Forgot the jpg.

 

[lync]

Different approach

On most crane jobs i've worked on my life line is run thru a pulley located a foot down from the tip of the boom. The crane operator
keeps the ball pulled up all the way so that its above me, picks me up with the boom and places me in the tree. I manuver into position using my climbing line and moving the boom to the best high tie in point. Set the sling(s) 1 or 2 depending on horizontal or vertical leaders. Tie in with my lanyard when im ready to cut.
After cut is made, and crane is holding the load, I unclip my climbing line (still tied in with lanyard) holding the falling of my climbing line while the operator booms/cables the load down. Ground guys unhook slings and send them back up on the ball. When boom is above me reclip in on the climbing line and signal crane operator to next pick position, sling the next piece and so on.


corey

 

[kf_tree]

lync, are you tied in at the boom while your making the cut? did i read that right?

 

[treeclimber165]

Lync,
Doing it that way, why would you need a climber? Seems like a tremendous waste of crane time if the crane is doing double duty moving the 'climber' (cutter?) around AND moving the limbs too.

Until recently it was illegal for cranes to lift people unless they were in an approved life support basket. Many crane companies and/or operators still refuse to do it. With my local crane outfit, their policy forbids it. But most of the operators familiar with tree work will give you a lift into the tree.

I like getting a lift into the tree to save myself an ascent, but then I tie in and move around the tree without assistance from the crane. I'd feel lazy sitting like a lump watching the ground crew busting butt and waiting for the crane to take me out the limb because I was too lazy to climb out there myself. I could see doing it that way if I had a broken leg or something.

 

[lync]

I'm sure there's more than 1 way to skin a cat. This meathod works, and there is no wasted movement. The boom is usually directly above the pick, which is probably your best tie in point to get the slings on. The operator cables up with the load to take out the slack, and you can decend or move laterally to the point at which you want to make your next cut. By holding the falling end of your line, you can easily retrieve it and clip in when the boom is above you. I know that you cant get into position for the next pick, until the boom is up, but the high tie in point makes moving around the tree a snap. Kf i'm tied in until after the cut
and unclip before the load is lowered.

 

[tjk]

165, I ran a crane removal crew for 4 years, {we own our own crane} our system is about identical as yours. We found that tying into the tree at the last brush cut was the most productive way to go. Our cutting techniques are also very simalar. There is no right or wrong to do any type of tree work, we just found this system to be the safest {zero lost time injuries} and the most productive}. We are going on our 10 th. year of having our own crane.

 

[kf_tree]

lync, staying tied in till after the cut is just not comfortable to me. cranes are great , but when some thing goes wrong it goes wrong big time. 2 different tree svc i know,,,,,,one ripped the boom right off the truck. another collapsed the boom right across a roof. i've seen out riggers come off the ground.... your putting alot of faith in the operator working that way. i always prefered to trust myself when ever possible. i'd tust being tied into a live oak over a mechanical crane with an operator any day.

we always did crane work as treeclimber 165 described or out of a bucket. lync, i'm not saying nah nah nah your way is wrong. but i would not be comfortable working that way. what ever works for you is the way to go i guess. the guys that did crane work with me were a tree svc that owned their own crane. they worked in an area with alot of big tree's and did nothing but big removals every day. they always rode the ball up and tied into the tree. if it was a limb that was a real pain to get out on a second guy would ride up to set the sling, then lower to the ground while the guy in the tree would make the cut. the same when useing the bucket. if the bucket would not reach to set the sling a second guy would ride up and the bucket guy would make the cut. but no one was tied to the crane while the cut was being made.

 

[Treeman14]

I'm pretty sure the Z states that the climber AND the load shall not be tied in at the same time. Its either one or the other. Even if its not the law, common sense would prevent me from tying into the boom while its loaded. We're not trying to be smug, we just don't want you to be the subject of the next tree climber killed thread.

 

[lync]

Anything said is with good intent, i'm the last one who wants to get hurt or worse. If the crane had a major failure, i'd be in deep
****, . The other methods being discussed seem to be safe and efficent. The way I described i feel is safe, even more so if the tree being removed is not sound. The operator is one of the best i,ve ever seen, I trust him. Todd was looking for methods used in removal, this way is just another option.