crane guys

[John Paul Sanborn]

Current ANSI states that the tree worker shall not be attached to the laded crane unless the responible person deams it to be the only safe way to work.

The tree worker shall not ride the hook but must be attached to the boom or cable above the ball. Hendrickson TCOC did a demo with a neat twist. The used a clevis on top of the ballwith a friction save running through a biner that was run throught he clevis locking pin. The climber attaches to the FS to rid the cable up to attache slings and then runs down, reties the climbinmg line to the tree for the cut.

 

[Froggy]

Reply

I'll say this be careful. Take a few min. to look and study the tree with your crain guy. Make sure both of you are see the same picture. Then use your head and make cuts according to the piece. It should got well and be pretty quick.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Brian and I seem to be talking about the same method, one thing I would add is to make the knoitch small and wide.

Small so to make the shelf wider

wide so that the face does not close befor the pick is complete

 

[treeclimber165]

Sorry, JPS, but you have it wrong. If the notch is too wide and the face does not close, the crane may not be able to pull the lead free. You want a narrower notch. Optimally, the face should close when the lead gets to about 75*-80* so it breaks free using leverage instead of making the crane operator jerk on it with the boom. The other scenario doing it your way is that the climber needs to go back and cut the lead free, placing him on harm's way. I cut my notches about 1/3 of the way through the lead so there is plenty of leverage on the face of the notch to break the limb free.

 

[Toddppm]

You mean like this? (in Pic) 1rst one , so it catches on the lip?
1/3 sounds deep but I guess with tension on it with the crane it's fine.
I looked them over today with the crane rep. , man they look small but it will save us half a day of roping and loading so it will be well worth it.

 

[treeclimber165]

Todd,
Kinda like this.

 

[Toddppm]

 

[treeclimber165]

Here it is showing the cable placement. I try to make the notch break off the lead and let the crane lift it off the step.

 

[treeclimber165]

I'm no artist, but I played around with Paint a little and made this. You showed a somewhat horozontal limb, I showed a somewhat vertical lead and also a vertical trunk. The less the lead will raise before being lifted, the smaller the notch. For anything within 10*-15* of vertical, you can just make opposing cuts.

 

[treeclimber165]

(forgot the pic) :blush:

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I have not doen crane work, but have been told that you don't want the ceane to break the peice off. Once the load is vertical, you can finis the cut if needed.

With your last pic, if I were using a winch, I would make the back cut parallel to the ground to increase the area of the shelf.

 

[treeclimber165]

JPS-
When the lead does not break free and you need to go back and cut it free, neither you nor the crane operator can be 100% positive of which way the butt will swing. I do not want my head or body in the path of a swinging 1000+lb chunk of wood. I have had to cut a few leads free and it is not a peaceful or relaxing situation. I prefer having the lead break free as it is being raised to vertical and it sails off smoothly without endangering me or shock loading the crane.

This is the 3rd time you have suggested a wider notch and the 3rd time I have contradicted you. I may not be the horticultural expert you are, but I know crane removals. They can be extremely easy or they can be scary as he11. I have done it both ways and I prefer easy.

 

[kf_tree]

one accident that i know of happened because the crane broke the piece off.

the few crane jobs i've been on when cutting the stick we always cut the stick straight across and through. slipping a wedge or 2 in so the saw does not bind.

the guys i know were doing a rental working with a climber they never worked with before. they were taking a big piece of the stick. the climber said the cut was through, the operator yelled it wasn't, the climber yelled it was. the operator went to boom it up , then the piece snapped off (the cut was not through). when it came off it caused the boom to bounce. the operator tried to dump the cable but he could not release it fast enough. it was a rear mount crane and the were working off the back side. the front out riggers came up the cab of the truck smashed onto the lower limbs of an oak it was parked next to. the boom broke right off the truck and layed between the 2 house's.

it just seems to me you would want a smoothe transition from tree to boom. no jerking or dropping, its the same as rope work. any drop just multiplies the weight.

 

[treeclimber165]

Here is how the lead is positioned after it breaks free as the crane lifts it. The climber should be safely clear of the lead at this point, NOT finishing the cut!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Calm down Brian, it is called discussion.

I'm stating my understaning and the reason behind it. My information comes from people I have a great deal of respect for.

By this I'm not trying to infer a lack of respect for you, just to give a basis for my accepting this information.

 

[r/ctree]

If they broke a crane boom they had the crane over loaded shock load want break a crane boom by itself! The combination of inexperience caused that accident. I have been around cranes all of my life and they preform when they are worked not jerked.

 

[Toddppm]

I'll be using a top notch and letting the operator snap it off unless he wants to be the climber and I run the crane! On a limb going out and up at an angle what other choice do you have? It's not like roping and the piece is going down away from you, it's going up and swinging towards you or over your head isn't it? I don't want to be near it when it comes off. A straight up pick won't bother me.

 

[kf_tree]

r/ctree
"I have been around cranes all of my life and they preform when they are worked not jerked."

did you mean to write perform? they perform when worked not jerked seems to contradict your first statement. they perform when worked not jerked seems to imply the "jerking" or bounce had some thing to do with the accident.

i'm not doubting you or the operators lack of judgement at the time. i'm just curious how big a roll the "bounce" played in the accident. if he was trying to raise the piece and it suddenly tore free causeing the crane to bounce, then trying to dump the cable and all the slack caught up with it. wouldn't that multiply an otherwise safe load into an over loaded piece? (did that make sense?)

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

When the lead does not break free and you need to go back and cut it free, neither you nor the crane operator can be 100% positive of which way the butt will swing. I do not want my head or body in the path of a swinging 1000+lb chunk of wood. I have had to cut a few leads free and it is not a peaceful or relaxing situation. I prefer having the lead break free as it is being raised to vertical and it sails off smoothly without endangering me or shock loading the crane.

Just because you do a lot of something, doesn't mean you are good at it, Performance Tree exemplifies this.
The climber should know where the but is going to swing, or he should set it up differently so he does know which way it will swing.
The size of the notch doesn't seem critical, in this case, because you are basicly doing a bypass cut. If you are not by passing, the crane will need more presure to "break" it off.
If the you were to use a narrow notch though, it could cause the limb to come free at a low angle(assuming you are tip tieing it like your picture). If this happens, you have more dynamic loading.
I would opt for a second strap and lift the limb off horizontally or butt tie it and lower it just like in normal rigging.

 

[treeclimber165]

Mike said-"If the you were to use a narrow notch though, it could cause the limb to come free at a low angle(assuming you are tip tieing it like your picture). If this happens, you have more dynamic loading. "

Obviously none of you are understanding me. As the crane liftsa the lead, the cut breaks free but the butt of the lead still sits on the step created by the placement of the undercut. There is absolutely NO SHOCK LOADING!. The crane simply stands the lead up and lifts it away in one smooth motion.

Mike said-"The climber should know where the but is going to swing, or he should set it up differently so he does know which way it will swing."

I was referring to when the lead is stood up straight and you need to finish cutting it clear (Because you accidentally made the notch too big). Even if the crane is holding the lead straight up, weighting of the lead can make the butt swing 2'-3' in any direction. In this scenario, the crane operator usually pulls the limb away from the climber, but I still would rather be 5' away behind the trunk when the lead breaks free.


I'm not going to read or respond on this thread any more, since almost none of you have any idea what I'm trying to describe and think my methods are bad even though you have little or no crane experience. I have done over 150 crane removals safely and was taught by a man who did over 300 safely. Every crane operator I've used was impressed and pleased with how smooth and safe my method is. I've never had an accident or damage claim on a crane removal.
My only critics are people who have never seen me work! So my description must be lacking.