Creating charcoal in an airtight stove

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The odd thing is that when I started this thread the wood from my woodpile created a lot of those "clinkers" I was trying to describe. Now the same wood later in the season is burning clean. The pile is dry, well aged and always covered so the wood hasn't changed. It's a mystery.
 
I got to disagree with your statement that there is no difference in biochar and charcoal. The charcoal left behind in your wood stove or brush pile is made in the presence of air. Biochar is made using a process called pyrolysis at much higher temperatures than charcoal, which leaves intact all the capillaries of the wood structures and allows for the biochar to uptake and hold moisture as well as microbiology. In the soil charcoal will breakdown in just a few years but biochar can last for thousands of years. Burning a brush pile over your garden will produce ash, not charcoal. Not to say you wont find some chunks of charcoal left behind. Wood that has been burnt in open air will have lost most, or all, of its carbon content (C02), and any gaseous nutrients the wood contained. You are left with some calcium, potassium, and other metals that dont burn.

None of this matters to a person that wishes to save their stove charcoal to use in their BBQ. I have done it, and lots of others have as well. Both charcoal and biochar will work, one will smoke more than the other and I aint one to go to the trouble to make biochar to use in my grill when I can get all the charcoal I want from my wood stove. But if I want carbon for my garden, I will make biochar instead of charcoal.
you are thinking of activated charcoal, not biochar, or any other sort of normal charcoal, infact most charcoal is created at rather low temps, cause higher temp will cause said charcoal to combust. its not made in a vacuum, some 02 can and will get in.
super heating charcoal is how you make activated charcoal, but im pretty sure there is a couple other steps along the way
 
you are thinking of activated charcoal, not biochar, or any other sort of normal charcoal, infact most charcoal is created at rather low temps, cause higher temp will cause said charcoal to combust. its not made in a vacuum, some 02 can and will get in.
super heating charcoal is how you make activated charcoal, but im pretty sure there is a couple other steps along the way
Activated charcoal is made using high heat, similar to biochar, but that is where the similarities end.
Activated charcoal is charcoal that has been ground into a powder and treated with calcium chloride and then dried again. Non activated charcoal will not help and actually hinder the crop growing there. So will biochar if it isnt activated. Activated charcoal is mostly used as a filter. To make activated biochar, you must use high temps in a non-oxygenated environment. The biochar is then charged with the same microbes that are found in the soil. This can be easily done by putting it in a pair of panty hose or a cloth sack and burying it in the woods and leaving for a few weeks. The biochar will soak up the soil moisture along with soil microbe and become charged for garden use.
Biochar is more porous than charcoal and will hold more moisture and microbes than charcoal. None of this is important if you are going to use it in your BBQ.

Here is a video of making biochar as well as capturing the smoke to make syngas.
 
Activated charcoal is made using high heat, similar to biochar, but that is where the similarities end.
Activated charcoal is charcoal that has been ground into a powder and treated with calcium chloride and then dried again. Non activated charcoal will not help and actually hinder the crop growing there. So will biochar if it isnt activated. Activated charcoal is mostly used as a filter. To make activated biochar, you must use high temps in a non-oxygenated environment. The biochar is then charged with the same microbes that are found in the soil. This can be easily done by putting it in a pair of panty hose or a cloth sack and burying it in the woods and leaving for a few weeks. The biochar will soak up the soil moisture along with soil microbe and become charged for garden use.
Biochar is more porous than charcoal and will hold more moisture and microbes than charcoal. None of this is important if you are going to use it in your BBQ.

Here is a video of making biochar as well as capturing the smoke to make syngas.

just because you show a youtube video, that is also wrong, does not make you correct. Its not a matter of opinion, its correct vs incorrect

I'd go into it, but I'm not going to waste my time.
 
Biochar is just charcoal in the soil.

It absorbs and releases nutrients.

It is best to 'charge' the charcoal with nutrients before use. If not charged the charcoal will draw nutrients from the soil. Diluted human urine is a popular charger.

I've made and used biochar on a small scale in our vegetable garden off and on for the past ten years.

I believe NorthManLogging would agree.
 
Burning wood in a catalytic 1995+- era in secondary and catalytic mode makes lots of charcoal if you keep it stuffed. You get less heat in the burn up coals portion if allowed to go that far. I made chunk charcoal a number of years. Probably can get more heat per day harvesting charcoal instead of burning up the coals.

Way more than 50% of BTUs must be in the gasses coming out of the wood as compared to burning up the coals. At least for hardwoods around here.

Same idea works but not as well in a non catalyst all nighter. Keep it full to the top for a day or so then wait until minimal yellow flames. Harvest to closed container. It is kind of messy. Just like chunk charcoal in bags.

Now if you burry it that is carbon sequestration.
 
When the stove reaches a sufficient temperature to maintain combustion with the top damper closed, we close it and regulate the combustion with the air valve. We close it down some for less heat and longer burn but when we do those klinkers are created more aggressively. If we close the air valve completely, we put the stove's fire out. We run it close to the kill zone and end up with a stove full of red hot clinkers that limit the burn box capacity and that don't produce enough heat for our purposes.
Chances are after passing through the air valve some air goes to the bottom, primary air and some up higher to do secondary combustion in the uppermost chamber you described. If you modify the ratio of the air split to burn off the coals probably secondary combustion will decrease.

If you can kill the fire by closing off all air that will make harvesting charcoal easier. Perhaps when having it go out during the day is sensible. Not sure if current stoves only use air passing through something adjustable.
 
just because you show a youtube video, that is also wrong, does not make you correct. Its not a matter of opinion, its correct vs incorrect

I'd go into it, but I'm not going to waste my time.
Sorry you feel that way. I dont know it all, but there are a lot of youtube videos promoting wrong information. You might be a victim of watching a few of those as well.
 
Biochar is just charcoal in the soil.

It absorbs and releases nutrients.

It is best to 'charge' the charcoal with nutrients before use. If not charged the charcoal will draw nutrients from the soil. Diluted human urine is a popular charger.

I've made and used biochar on a small scale in our vegetable garden off and on for the past ten years.

I believe NorthManLogging would agree.
thats a great big bingo, though small amounts as a supplement do just fine, and will just keep adding to the soil as they break down, not sure I would order 10yds of charcoal and dump it in the backyard like Hey MA, WE'RE GONNA HAVE SOME KILLER SPUDS THIS YEAR!
Sorry you feel that way. I dont know it all, but there are a lot of youtube videos promoting wrong information. You might be a victim of watching a few of those as well.
Nothing to do with Youtube funny enough, but knowing the difference between charcoal either purpose made, or secondary and activated charcoal, from my own research in how to feed my forge lonnnnnnng before you could simply look it up on the youtube, **** before I was old enough to even drive. If you took the time to do just the modicum of research before spouting off you would know the difference as well.

Samesies for the "biochar" putting wood ash and charcoal on a garden has been a hill billy secret for as long as there have been hill billies. And if you think bill HIllies go through the trouble to convert it into activated carbon you might be delusional.
 
"clinkers" are not charcoal, but silica and other minerals that have bonded through heat, if they are proper "clinkers" they are essentially just super heated ash.
Granted I've never seen actual clinkers form in a wood fire, its generally a coal fire that makes them (and they are ******* annoying) Wood ash does create a crusty surface sometimes that acts much like coal clinkers, if they become a problem just shovel them out.

now if its actual charcoal, then it will burn up and make the next fire easier to start, I just herd them all to the middle so they make a nice coal bed when I relight the fire.

to create good charcoal for use in a bar-B-que then you need to heat the wood with zero oxygen until all fumes stop, a tin can with a small hole punched in it, stuffed slam full of wood (hardwood is best) then set in a hot fire works pretty damned good. That said, saving the left overs from a fire will work just fine for a bar-B-que as well or maybe better then store bought "cowboy" charcoal and a helluva lot better then briquets, after all charcoal, is charcoal, its just unburnt carbon free of impurities, the density is really only up to species of raw wood, though I suspect the canned zero oxygen method makes better charcoal, I don't think it matters.
A friend of mine puts a 30 gallon steel drum inside a 55 gallon steel drum. The 30 gallon drum has no holes in it, the lid sits on top. The 55 gal has a bunch of holes at the bottom on the sides. He loads up the 30 gallon drum as tight as possible with wood, puts the lid on and then puts a rock on the lid. He packs around the outside of the 30 gal drum but inside the 55 gal drum with wood, and lights it. He keeps the wood burning until there are no more fumes coming from the 30 gallon drum then lifts the 30 gal out of the 55 and sets it on the ground to cool. That's how he gets charcoal to use in his Green Egg.
 
thats a great big bingo, though small amounts as a supplement do just fine, and will just keep adding to the soil as they break down, not sure I would order 10yds of charcoal and dump it in the backyard like Hey MA, WE'RE GONNA HAVE SOME KILLER SPUDS THIS YEAR!

Nothing to do with Youtube funny enough, but knowing the difference between charcoal either purpose made, or secondary and activated charcoal, from my own research in how to feed my forge lonnnnnnng before you could simply look it up on the youtube, **** before I was old enough to even drive. If you took the time to do just the modicum of research before spouting off you would know the difference as well.

Samesies for the "biochar" putting wood ash and charcoal on a garden has been a hill billy secret for as long as there have been hill billies. And if you think bill HIllies go through the trouble to convert it into activated carbon you might be delusional.
I hate to break it to you, but I am probably as old as you are and was also around way before youtube. I have also spent 3 years researching soil fertility including Biochar and Charcoal. I have attended seminars in Louisville Kentucky, Charlotte Nc, Athens Ga at the University, Nashvill tenn, and even at the home of a Marcus Wallenberg Prize winner, widely considered the Nobel Prize of Forestry, in Frogmore Sc. The fact that you dont know the difference and are not willing to listen to any other opinions on the subject speaks volumes. You can believe what you want to and for your general use of burning in your forge and grilling a steak on your grill, you're perfectly fine doing what you're doing. But if you are trying to build soil fertility and wanting to use Biochar as a tool. Then your opinion are just opinions, not necessarily wrong, just lacking proper context.

As for your statement about charcoal and biochar effects on the soil. I had already mentioned that.
Non activated charcoal will not help and actually hinder the crop growing there. So will biochar if it isnt activated.
And even though I dont normally agree with Del, He mentioned this also.
It is best to 'charge' the charcoal with nutrients before use. If not charged the charcoal will draw nutrients from the soil. Diluted human urine is a popular charger.
So while I stand by my statements that none of this matters if you are wanting to use your stove charcoal in your grill, or in your forge, it does matter if you are trying to make biochar and use it to build soil fertility. I will also state that you can use the charcoal from your stove in your garden but expect a certain amount of nutrient tie-up until the charcoal can naturally absorb the necessary nutrients already available and naturally found in the soil. I will also state that Charcoal and wood ash are not the same, as you suggested in one of your other post.

A few other things that other members have stated are true as well,
Way more than 50% of BTUs must be in the gasses coming out of the wood as compared to burning up the coals. At least for hardwoods around here.
If you had watched the Youtube video, and, , you would see that the students are making syngas from the wood smoke. And dont forget those wood fired cars that run their engines off the gas created from the burning wood.
And,
A friend of mine puts a 30 gallon steel drum inside a 55 gallon steel drum. The 30 gallon drum has no holes in it, the lid sits on top. The 55 gal has a bunch of holes at the bottom on the sides. He loads up the 30 gallon drum as tight as possible with wood, puts the lid on and then puts a rock on the lid. He packs around the outside of the 30 gal drum but inside the 55 gal drum with wood, and lights it. He keeps the wood burning until there are no more fumes coming from the 30 gallon drum then lifts the 30 gal out of the 55 and sets it on the ground to cool. That's how he gets charcoal to use in his Green Egg.
Notice the use of a sealed drum inside a drum to create an airtight chamber for the charcoal.

This thread started about using charcoal leftovers from a wood stove in their BBQ, and I guess it's my fault it got side tracked. For that reason, I am just going to stop commenting on the subject unless someone wants to start a new thread about charcoal and biochar.
 
I hate to break it to you, but I am probably as old as you are and was also around way before youtube. I have also spent 3 years researching soil fertility including Biochar and Charcoal. I have attended seminars in Louisville Kentucky, Charlotte Nc, Athens Ga at the University, Nashvill tenn, and even at the home of a Marcus Wallenberg Prize winner, widely considered the Nobel Prize of Forestry, in Frogmore Sc. The fact that you dont know the difference and are not willing to listen to any other opinions on the subject speaks volumes. You can believe what you want to and for your general use of burning in your forge and grilling a steak on your grill, you're perfectly fine doing what you're doing. But if you are trying to build soil fertility and wanting to use Biochar as a tool. Then your opinion are just opinions, not necessarily wrong, just lacking proper context.

As for your statement about charcoal and biochar effects on the soil. I had already mentioned that.

And even though I dont normally agree with Del, He mentioned this also.

So while I stand by my statements that none of this matters if you are wanting to use your stove charcoal in your grill, or in your forge, it does matter if you are trying to make biochar and use it to build soil fertility. I will also state that you can use the charcoal from your stove in your garden but expect a certain amount of nutrient tie-up until the charcoal can naturally absorb the necessary nutrients already available and naturally found in the soil. I will also state that Charcoal and wood ash are not the same, as you suggested in one of your other post.

A few other things that other members have stated are true as well,

If you had watched the Youtube video, and, , you would see that the students are making syngas from the wood smoke. And dont forget those wood fired cars that run their engines off the gas created from the burning wood.
And,

Notice the use of a sealed drum inside a drum to create an airtight chamber for the charcoal.

This thread started about using charcoal leftovers from a wood stove in their BBQ, and I guess it's my fault it got side tracked. For that reason, I am just going to stop commenting on the subject unless someone wants to start a new thread about charcoal and biochar.

why stop? I don't even know what the hell biochar is, and I am learning something new.

we grow a small garden if it helps i will try anything once or twice....except for homosexuality.... thats a negative along with owning a dogde...or chevy maybe I should shut up at this point :)
 
I put a couple pictures here. The first one is some sort of deposits that seem to form on the top of the ash pile in our all nighter wood stove. These don't seem to happen in the other stove that has an ash pan under a grate sort of set up, likely because of some portion of the air being updraft.

The second one is some sort of mini file cabinet of sorts probably for card like sheets. Likely similar would be plastic today. It has become a mouse house. The idea is it has low sides and the coals are raked into it then the drawer thing put into the box portion and put out in the cold.

I have not made charcoal or whatever the best term for it is for a number of years. If you had some sort of hood and an assistant with a vacuum might be able to do it sort of in a clean manner for dust. Might even try the crush then add urine in the garden and see.

ash lumps.jpg

charcoal making box.jpg
 
The short answer is yes you can use the coals for smoking if it was smoking wood to begin with. My remedy is to simply open the stove door and let in more air that allows them to burn down to ash. By opening the door it lets in a lot of fresh air and lets all the radiant heat come out the door. Smoke is not an issue because the coals don't smoke like raw wood does.
 
I hate to break it to you, but I am probably as old as you are and was also around way before youtube. I have also spent 3 years researching soil fertility including Biochar and Charcoal. I have attended seminars in Louisville Kentucky, Charlotte Nc, Athens Ga at the University, Nashvill tenn, and even at the home of a Marcus Wallenberg Prize winner, widely considered the Nobel Prize of Forestry, in Frogmore Sc. The fact that you dont know the difference and are not willing to listen to any other opinions on the subject speaks volumes. You can believe what you want to and for your general use of burning in your forge and grilling a steak on your grill, you're perfectly fine doing what you're doing. But if you are trying to build soil fertility and wanting to use Biochar as a tool. Then your opinion are just opinions, not necessarily wrong, just lacking proper context.

As for your statement about charcoal and biochar effects on the soil. I had already mentioned that.

And even though I dont normally agree with Del, He mentioned this also.

So while I stand by my statements that none of this matters if you are wanting to use your stove charcoal in your grill, or in your forge, it does matter if you are trying to make biochar and use it to build soil fertility. I will also state that you can use the charcoal from your stove in your garden but expect a certain amount of nutrient tie-up until the charcoal can naturally absorb the necessary nutrients already available and naturally found in the soil. I will also state that Charcoal and wood ash are not the same, as you suggested in one of your other post.

A few other things that other members have stated are true as well,

If you had watched the Youtube video, and, , you would see that the students are making syngas from the wood smoke. And dont forget those wood fired cars that run their engines off the gas created from the burning wood.
And,

Notice the use of a sealed drum inside a drum to create an airtight chamber for the charcoal.

This thread started about using charcoal leftovers from a wood stove in their BBQ, and I guess it's my fault it got side tracked. For that reason, I am just going to stop commenting on the subject unless someone wants to start a new thread about charcoal and biochar.

you keep saying the same thing only angrier, yet you have yet to discover the difference between regular charcoal, and activated charcoal.
does activated charcoal work better as a soil amendment, maybe, does it make an excellent filter media yes, is it chemically the same as regular charcoal absolutely.
it however is not made in the same process, which is my gawd damn point, all these seminars you've been too only prove one thing, suckers like big words like pyrotransmogrified or whatever.
and will pay more for something if it sounds fancy and new, its just charcoal thats all biochar is or has ever been, you wanna process it into activated charcoal its another step or three with debatable benefit to soil
 
you keep saying the same thing only angrier, yet you have yet to discover the difference between regular charcoal, and activated charcoal.
does activated charcoal work better as a soil amendment, maybe, does it make an excellent filter media yes, is it chemically the same as regular charcoal absolutely.
it however is not made in the same process, which is my gawd damn point, all these seminars you've been too only prove one thing, suckers like big words like pyrotransmogrified or whatever.
and will pay more for something if it sounds fancy and new, its just charcoal thats all biochar is or has ever been, you wanna process it into activated charcoal its another step or three with debatable benefit to soil
Carbon is carbon, nothing more or nothing less and I have never said otherwise. Even a diamond is carbon and will burn if it gets hot enough. As for getting angrier, try looking at yourself. I am not angry. I know the difference between charcoal, activated charcoal and biochar and they are all made from the same base carbon sources. For charcoal, the material is usually wood, but for biochar the source can be any organic material, even elephant poop. Biochar is made at higher temps than charcoal to preserve the internal structures of the product. This allows the biochar to uptake and hold more water and nutrients than charcoal. That is the only real difference between the two products. You can use either to fire your grill, or grow your garden, only for growing, biochar is better than regular charcoal.
it however is not made in the same process, which is my gawd damn point,

As for not being made in the same process, that is exactly the point.
 
"clinkers" are not charcoal, but silica and other minerals that have bonded through heat, if they are proper "clinkers" they are essentially just super heated ash.
Granted I've never seen actual clinkers form in a wood fire, its generally a coal fire that makes them (and they are ******* annoying) Wood ash does create a crusty surface sometimes that acts much like coal clinkers, if they become a problem just shovel them out.

now if its actual charcoal, then it will burn up and make the next fire easier to start, I just herd them all to the middle so they make a nice coal bed when I relight the fire.

to create good charcoal for use in a bar-B-que then you need to heat the wood with zero oxygen until all fumes stop, a tin can with a small hole punched in it, stuffed slam full of wood (hardwood is best) then set in a hot fire works pretty damned good. That said, saving the left overs from a fire will work just fine for a bar-B-que as well or maybe better then store bought "cowboy" charcoal and a helluva lot better then briquets, after all charcoal, is charcoal, its just unburnt carbon free of impurities, the density is really only up to species of raw wood, though I suspect the canned zero oxygen method makes better charcoal, I don't think it matters.

That's a mighty fine answer.

Here's what's going on guys: charcoal (as mentioned above), isn't really recovered too well from a low oxygen fire. It is best made from an outside heat source that chars the wood, breaks down the chemical bonds that hold the wood together, and distills the volatile elements out of the wood. A lot of BTU's are pushed out of that tin can, but what is left doesn't have all the energy cooked out of it.

When you just starve your wood fire of oxygen until it dies off, leaving some charcoal, you are wasting a lot of BTU's and not getting the best charcoal, either. I can see how it might be cheaper than going and buying some of the good stuff, though.
 

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