Crosscut Saw Manuals / References

[AT sawyer]

I've been filing crosscuts for a while. Not something you get good at overnight.

 

[ptjeep]

Any good You Tube videos that you can link us to?

Thanks.

Philbert

Sorry i never replied, i lost track of this thread. I will try to find some tonight and post links.

 

[slowp]

Here is a link that shows the neat gizmo to use when underbucking. An axe handle works too, but it isn't as cool.

Underbucking photo - bchw photos at pbase.com

 

[Philbert]

I found another USFS crosscut manual, 'Saws That Sing', courtesy of Madhatte, and have added it to the list below so that they are all in one place. This one has a lot of great photographs, along with some material that is also in the other USFS publications. Since they are all free, you might as well have them all. A couple of hundred pages if you decide to print them all out.

Saws That Sing - A Guide to Using Crosscut Saws USFS 2004

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment...cations/fs_publications/04232822/04232822.pdf


Crosscut Saw Manual USFS 2003

http://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/pdfpubs/pdf77712508/pdf77712508dpi72.pdf


New Tools for Old Saws - Crosscut Saw Tools USFS 2005

http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/pdfpubs/pdf05232815/pdf05232815dpi300.pdf


Chain Saw and Crosscut Saw Training Course USFS 2006

http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/pdfpubs/pdf06672805/pdf06672805dpi300.pdf

Northeastern Loggers Handbook USDA 1951

http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/CAT87208315/PDF


BTW, I did get a copy of Setting and Sharpening Hand and Power Saws by Harold Payson (mentioned in post #14), which is a thin, but good, general book covering all types of wood cutting saws. It only has a page or so covering these types of logging saws, and not nearly in the depth of the USFS books above.


Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Raker Files?

The USFS manuals show a triangular 'safe' file with smooth (non cutting edges) for dressing the rakers - see illustration below.



Any reason I cannot use a standard depth gauge file (flat, with smooth edges)? I don't need a triangular profile for this edge.

Thanks.

Philbert

 

[AT sawyer]

I set my safe-cornered slim taper file on the filing plate of a lowered raker gauge when I file the under sides of my rakers. This makes for a consistent raker angle. If you can hold your flat file freehand at the exact same angle for each raker, you can get away with just the flat file.

Crosscut saw filing angles work the same as on a chainsaw chain. If you do everything exactly the same for each tooth/raker, your saw performs better. Some folks here freehand all their file work. I prefer the ease of gauges and different files to guarantee consistency.

 

[Philbert]

Related video posted by imagineero in a related thread:

[video=youtube_share;mXBR1GpbmeY]http://youtu.be/mXBR1GpbmeY[/video]

USFS " The Crosscut Sawyer" Video to accompany the books referenced above.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Here are some additional links, courtesy of the 'Back Country Horsemen of Washinington' website (are these your buddies slowp?):

The Crosscut Filer DVD
The Crosscut Saw Filer DVD by Warren Miller
Watch on-line and ordering information for DVD from USFS Missoula Technology and Development Center

Crosscut Saw Sharpening References (multiple)
http://www.bchw.org/Tech tips/Crosscut Sharpening.htm

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Another video posted by imagineero:

[video=youtube_share;PQ9eYVdVd04]http://youtu.be/PQ9eYVdVd04[/video]

"USFS Hand Tools for Trail Work - Part 1: The Crosscut Saw, Usage and Maintenance"

Note - The labeling of these videos on YouTube is somewhat weird. This one is labeled 'An Axe to Grind Part 1' on YouTube, which is actually the name of a different video, posted later in this thread.

Philbert

 

[machinisttx]

Thanks for the info. I'd always wondered about sharpening up the old manual saws and had never seen any info.

 

[Philbert]

[video=youtube_share;oQutrlvFKTo]http://youtu.be/oQutrlvFKTo[/video]

"USFS Hand Tools for Trail Work - Part 2: Axes"

Note - The labeling of these videos on You Tube is somewhat weird. This one is labeled 'An Axe to Grind Part 2' on YouTube - which is actually the title of a different video, posted below.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

[video=youtube_share;6e-6lt1aYdk]http://youtu.be/6e-6lt1aYdk[/video]

USFS Hand Tools for Trail Work
"An Axe To Grind Part 1: Axes"

Note - The labeling of these videos on You Tube is somewhat weird. This one is labeled 'An Axe to Grind Part 3' on YouTube - it actually covers axes.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

[video=youtube_share;HluWpq8jWak]http://youtu.be/HluWpq8jWak[/video]

USFS Hand Tools for Trail Work
"An Axe to Grind Part 2"

Note - The labeling of these videos on YouTube is somewhat weird. This one is labeled 'An Axe to Grind Part 4' on YouTube - it actually covers axes, including historical axes.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Thread bump (as I bought another crosscut saw at a garage sale today!).

View attachment 370571

Here is another link to "The Crosscut Saw Filer: DVD that can be viewed on line:
http://www.bchw.org/Tech tips/FilerDVD.htm

I was also able to order a copy:
The DVD is available from MTDC, 5785 Highway 10 West, Missoula, MT 59808
Phone: 406-329-3900 Bob Beckley, Project Leader - October 2011 - Item Number 1123-2D03-MTDC

I noticed a few missing photos in this thread - I will try to go back and replace the ones from my posts. Please fix any other missing photos or links that you can.

Thanks.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Received these today (mine were correctly oriented).

Philbert




The Crosscut Saw Filer DVD is very good, demonstrating detailed technical information, and covers: cleaning, straightening, sharpening, choosing tools for maintaining saws, etc. The video will run on a computer or DVD player on your TV.It also contains PDF versions of 3 USFS manuals:

- Crosscut Saw Manual
- Saws That Sing - A Guide To Using Crosscut Saws
- New Tools for Old Saws

The Crosscut Sawyer DVD has a very basic training video that will run on a computer or DVD player on your TV. It also has lots of valuable PDF resources available on a computer:

- Chain Saw and Crosscut Saw Training Course (Instructor's and Student's Guidebooks, and training PowerPoints)
- Crosscut Saw Manual
- Saws That Sing - A Guide To Using Crosscut Saws
- New Tools for Old Saws
- Crosscut Saw Guards - Technical Bulletin
- Crosscut Saw Underbucking Tool - Technical Bulletin
- Field Tests Comparing Modern to Vintage Crosscut Saws - Technical Bulletin

Chain Saw and Crosscut Saw Training Course DVD contains the full text PDFs of the Instructor's and Student's manuals (very similar) which are very informative, along with PowerPoint presentations.

"The Chain Saw and Crosscut Saw Training Course provides materials for instructors teaching a 16- to 32-hour course for basic to intermediate chain saw and crosscut saw users. The course is designed to provide the technical knowledge and skills employees or volunteers will need to use these tools safely"- USFS

*This disc is primarily intended to run on a Windows computer, but Mac users can extract most of the information (aside from the auto-run features) from these folders:

'Documents': contains chainsaw and crosscut saw PowerPoint training presentations.

'htmlpubs/htm06672804/images' (and 'htmlpubs/htm06672805/images'): contain lots of very helpful illustrations of chainsaw cutters, crosscut saw teeth, filing, sharpening, bar rails, wedges, felling techniques, bind, etc., etc.. (Note: other 'images' files mostly contain USFS logos, etc.).

'pdfpubs': contain additional PowerPoint presentations, along with the full text PDFs of the Instructor's and Student's manuals.

 

[Philbert]

Here is another helpful reference, mentioned by Bret4207 in another thread:

"Northeastern Loggers Handbook" from the USDA
http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/CAT87208315/PDF

(I will also add it in to an earlier post to keep them together)

Philbert

 

[Bret4207]

The Northeastern Loggers Handbook has the only dedicated section on filing bow saws/Swede saws/pulp saws I've seen other than Lee's book. At the time the NLH was written the Swedes had just hit the woods only a few years before. Talking to the old timers around Long Lake, Newcomb and Tupper Lake NY many years back, I got the impression they were all the rage on small stuff. I think they lasted about 8 or 10 years before the power saws took over. I found 2 42" pulp saws in the woods on my property in Long Lake. Still have both and a few spare blades. They are definitely superior to the standard buck saw with the peg tooth blade in wood under 16" or so. Over that and a one or 2 man cross cut wins out simply because there's no frame to deal with. I did pick up an old buck saw with a odd lance tooth type blade. Only one I've ever sen anywhere. Cuts dry wood like gangbusters. Needs more set for green. I also have 2 Disston one man crosscuts, one Tuttle style tooth and one Lance type. The Tuttle is better in hardwoods so far, but the Lance tooth isn't as sharp so maybe it's that making the difference. I don't have the energy, or time, to do a lot more research on that, but I like seeing them on the wall. They aren't going anywhere.

 

[Philbert]

Classic, Vintage Texts on Saws

Rummaging around a variety of forums and sites, I ran across a number of of long out-of-print books and manuals on hand saws, including crosscut saws, saw history, filing, etc. I cannot take full credit for finding these, and have to share some with A.S. member AT sawyer who offered some direction.

These are wonderful if you have an interest in learning about, restoring, or using, old saws. Many are from a day when it was taken for granted that there were dozens of different types of saws for different purposes, and that they were state-of-the-art technology. Here is an example of the perspective they bring:

"A curious modification of the crosscut saw is the chain saw. This is used chiefly by the military the American, French and other army engineers being equipped with it. The chain saw consists of a series of links (see Fig. 20), each fitted with saw teeth. When ready for operation a handle is attached to each end, the saw stretched against the tree, and worked back and forth. A tree interfering with the movements of troops can be cut away by two men in a comparatively short time with a chain saw. It is compact, and serviceable for this purpose, but would not meet the requirements of more extensive work." The Saw In History Henry Disston & Sons, 1916

Since they are out of copyright protection, these books have been digitally scanned, and are all available in free PDF versions for downloading, saving and viewing off line. Some of these books reside on woodworking, tool, or similar sites. Each can be found by Googling the title. One site that has all of these titles (linked with permission of the Mods) is:

http://www.evenfallstudios.com/woodworks_library/woodworks_library.html

This library also has many additional, vintage books on files, hand tools, woodworking, logging, 19th and early 20th century technology, etc., so it could take some time to re-emerge into the 21st century. If you like these, I encourage you to download PDF copies, and maybe burn them all to a CD, so that you have them in case the site you find them on is no longer supported.

Philbert


The Art of Saw Filing - Holly 1864

Saw Filing and Management of Saws - Grimshaw 1882

Saws The History Development Action Classification and Comparison - Grimshaw 1882

The Saw in History - Disston 1916

Disston Handbook on Saws 1917

Disston Saw Tool and File Manual 1926

Disston Saw Tool and File Manual 1953

A Treatise on Files and Rasps - Nicholson 1878

 

[mad murdock]

Thanks philbert!! Awesome info...

 

[Philbert]

Another:

http://www.cross-cut.org/Atkins/txt/1900-Atkins-Catalog.pdf

Atkins Saw Catalog 1900



Philbert