Curious about attitudes

[ozarktreeman]

Ok: just wondering went on a site walk through yesterday in Ok.
If any of you guys were there you know where I'm talking about.
Just a walk through for a pre bid.
About 12 contractors there.Cold rainy day.So I try to make small talk,1st mistake,you would have thought that I asked them there bid price,never seen so many sour faces in my life,other than a AA meeting.lol
But seriously I wonder if most of the guys on this site were anonymous and at that same meeting would it still be the same.
I would think that the guys on here could at least carry on a conversation.Or is it the nature of the beast to stare you down and scowl at you all day.
Or do I just like to gab to make small talk to much.Ropensaddles opinion not withstanding.

 

[ozarktreeman]

For a fed job,might be a waste of time might not.
Have private jobs,but will run out soon. It is winter,no storm no work.

 

[pdqdl]

I have seen the same thing many times. Those other fellows were anxious, looking to make you believe that they were the ultimate competitor. They were in "competition mode".

Chances are, they lack the confidence and experience that you do. It's old hat for you, and you are comfortable in that scene. I prefer to talk shop at times like that too, but I often get met with silence or heavily restrained conversation.

You would think that people that have similar values and make their livelihood the same way would be inclined to get along, wouldn't you?

 

[ozarktreeman]

I have seen the same thing many times. Those other fellows were anxious, looking to make you believe that they were the ultimate competitor. They were in "competition mode".

Chances are, they lack the confidence and experience that you do. It's old hat for you, and you are comfortable in that scene. I prefer to talk shop at times like that too, but I often get met with silence or heavily restrained conversation.

You would think that people that have similar values and make their livelihood the same way would be inclined to get along, wouldn't you?

Well thought about the comp mode ,but these guys were shut off completely,no questions about the scope of work involved,what the budget was ,time limit,but then again I guess I waaas doing all the talking. But yea it is a shame.

 

[pdqdl]

Well thought about the comp mode ,but these guys were shut off completely,no questions about the scope of work involved,what the budget was ,time limit,but then again I guess I waaas doing all the talking. But yea it is a shame.

Again, that points to experience and confidence. You have probably been snookered by enough contracts to know what to ask about, and you weren't trying to convince everybody that you knew so much that you didn't need to ask any questions. It is funny how peoples egos get in the way of asking questions so that they can find out what they need to know.

I'll bet there was at least one guy there that pretty much knew what was going on, and he kept talking up about all the problems that those other poor contractors at the meeting needed to know about before they handed in their bids. That is usually the incumbent contractor that is afraid of loosing his contract or he had some reason to think that he was going to get the job if he could convince everybody elst they should bid higher. Eh?

(BTW: that has been me on many occasions!)

 

[Sunrise Guy]

If there are more than three other contractors trying to land the same job when I get there, I promptly turn around. I have never found it to be worth it on big open-call bid sessions. The mega-companies have it down to a fine art: They have all of the enormous amounts of red tape documentation required, assigned to a department devoted to just that, and they can bury everyone else with it. They are good at what they do, in that respect, and their sweetheart contracts with the municipal/federal powers that be almost guarantee that they will land the gig over all others present. In the residential scene, if an ho tells me that he/she is having more than three companies bid their job, I politely decline to even waste my time seeing it. It is a certainty, in my area, that one of the bidders will be a monkeys-with-chainsaws operation and their bid will make them $50 each at the end of a ten-hour workday. I cannot lower myself to that level, at this time. If the economy tries to force me to do so, I will be out of this biz. The way things are going, that just might come to pass.

 

[treesquirrel]

While I would not mention my pricing I certainly would not be rude. I've met other companies at bids and pretty much say hello, shake hands, then proceed to assess the job. I have engaged in discussion about the complexities of a particular job and have had courteous interaction.

 

[treesquirrel]

Twelve contractors on a bid walk through is a waste of time!

Yep! I'd just walk away in that case too.

 

[pdqdl]

I used to get a lot of work from the City of KCMO every year. They would invite 20-30 contractors in to bid on "weed control" (tractor mowing of abandoned properties), and there would be a huge pack of people present.

Then...nobody would bid on the work. For about 5 years, there was only two contractors that bid on the work: me and my competitor. All the rest were "no bids", or bids that were so high they were not even considered.

Next story: KCMO issued boulevard and parks mowing contracts, and the meeting was always filled with a large number of contractors. The scope of the work was always so great that no contractor could do all the work. The city had rules that stipulated that no contractor could get more than 3 contracts. So...each contractor bid most reasonably on the areas they wanted, and the lowballers got stuck with the work that nobody else wanted.


Moral of this story: A big pack of contractors does not mean that you will not get the job, nor does it mean that the work will be done too cheap or only by the big contractor.

Postscript: after many years of contracting, the Boulevard mowing has gotten so cheap that only the small companies willing to work for wages can afford to do the work, and the city seems happy with that. The weed control department has screwed over the contractors so much that both me, my original competitor, and most of the other qualified contractors don't even look at the contracts any more.

I guess the final moral of this story is that you really need to know what you are doing when you bid on government contracts.

 

[ozarktreeman]

I used to get a lot of work from the City of KCMO every year. They would invite 20-30 contractors in to bid on "weed control" (tractor mowing of abandoned properties), and there would be a huge pack of people present.

Then...nobody would bid on the work. For about 5 years, there was only two contractors that bid on the work: me and my competitor. All the rest were "no bids", or bids that were so high they were not even considered.

Next story: KCMO issued boulevard and parks mowing contracts, and the meeting was always filled with a large number of contractors. The scope of the work was always so great that no contractor could do all the work. The city had rules that stipulated that no contractor could get more than 3 contracts. So...each contractor bid most reasonably on the areas they wanted, and the lowballers got stuck with the work that nobody else wanted.


Moral of this story: A big pack of contractors does not mean that you will not get the job, nor does it mean that the work will be done too cheap or only by the big contractor.

Postscript: after many years of contracting, the Boulevard mowing has gotten so cheap that only the small companies willing to work for wages can afford to do the work, and the city seems happy with that. The weed control department has screwed over the contractors so much that both me, my original competitor, and most of the other qualified contractors don't even look at the contracts any more.

I guess the final moral of this story is that you really need to know what you are doing when you bid on government contracts.

And I am not afraid of saying that I don't,But there,s one way to learn and that is get out there and bid bid bid,something is bound to come of it.And if I can get my feet wet,then more will turn up.
I figure only half that showed will even turn in a proposal,a couple will be so low that they get tossed and that leaves a couple of serious bids. And if not i,m doing fine where I am at.
So I guess the next one that I go to I will put my game face on or Ahole face which ever works best.

And yes pdqdl I did manage to get stuck on the site driving off in the field,just to show how crappy the terrain was.

 

[pdqdl]

Some agencies have the ability to reject a bid that is "materially underbid", and almost all government contracts allow rejection of a low bidder if their company can be shown to have insufficient resources to complete the job.

I was low bidder on a trash receptacle service contract with the local bus service. They considered that I was materially underbid, because it was almost 1/2 of the major trash hauler in KC. I had a meeting with them, and they assured me that I was going to loose money, and that they knew how much it cost to perform the contract. They genuinely believed that I had underbid the job, and they were unwilling to risk a failure by my company.

So they hired some lawyers to allow them to not hire me. Then I had to hire some lawyers to keep them from doing that to me. After jumping through many hoops and them pulling some really dirty tricks, I managed to get the contract.

That was 10 years ago, and they have been happy with me ever since. I am now getting $4.47 per can, which is STILL $2.20 less than my competitors bid in 1999. But then again...since I got the contract, they have twice thrown out other bidders that beat my price by a small amount...because we do a good job and they like us...and the other guys made small mistakes on their paperwork.

All this occurred on a contract that is required to adhere to Federal Acquisition Regulations (FAR). So you can safely say that the low bidder is not always going to get the job.

 

[jefflovstrom]

I am usually a freindly guy to all. Sometimes I meet guys I dont like but I am polite.
Jeff

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

Be who you are. Screw everyone else.

 

[treemandan]

Yes I would just like to say I think it would be better if evrybody didn't act like a #### head when they ran into each at estimates and such AND Jeez that commercial stuff has got to be a ballbreaker in more ways than one.

 

[treemandan]

Oh yeah and I wanna say the attitude is like that rattlesnake theory; They are more scared of you than you are of them. That's why they act like #### heads. Its one thing to be treated like a #### head by someone you know but to be so treated by someone you never met? Makes me walk up and start shaking hands with a big smile on.

 

[ozarktreeman]

Oh yeah and I wanna say the attitude is like that rattlesnake theory; They are more scared of you than you are of them. That's why they act like #### heads. Its one thing to be treated like a #### head by someone you know but to be so treated by someone you never met? Makes me walk up and start shaking hands with a big smile on.

I,m with you on that Dan,but the personality level on these guys was 0. I honestly don't think they could sell any thing,but they were not there to sell there selves I suppose.
But still you think that guys with something in common would have something to talk about ,specially standing around with your thumb up your ### for 2 hours.

 

[pdqdl]

...
But still you think that guys with something in common would have something to talk about ,specially standing around with your thumb up your ### for 2 hours.

That was good for my morning chuckle! Thanks.

 

[ozarktreeman]

That was good for my morning chuckle! Thanks.

Well glad to give a little laugh,that,s what kinda sob I am. now you see why I have so much trouble playing with others.LOL

 

[pdqdl]

I heard that expression quite a few times in my youth, as my father was fond of accusing me of doing just that.

 

[Lawnmowerboy48]

Find someone on the inside and get to know them.