Cutomers expecting free work

[Groundman One]

So we're doing a job last Thursday and Friday (back Monday). About thirty or forty trees, ranging from squiggly 6"-ers to 60'+ climbers. Straight forward drop 'em, cut 'em up, pile 'em, and good bye. The customer is loaded and has nice machinery. Says he'll clean it all up himself. Great!

A few hours into the job he pulls up in his front loader and says he has a good idea, that he'll get some of the wood "out from under our feet"; just load it into his bucket and he'll dump it at the back of his property. Okay. So I load up the bucket. Then he comes back and I load it again. And again. And again. And again. All of a sudden he's following us from tree to tree expecting all the wood to be loaded into his truck. Now, I don't mind the exercise, but a job priced to cut and pile is perhaps not priced the same as a job to cut pile and load. So after about eight or ten loads we tell him he's going to have to cough up some extra cash if he's expecting us to load up all the trees we cut. He whined for about ten-minutes, tried to make us think he was helping us and making the job easier. Yeah... right. In the end he agreed to cough up some extra cash.

Just curious what others think, and if they get this stuff from people as often as we do.

 

[imagineero]

yeah, pretty often. If it's small (would you mind cutting that one extra branch also?) then I'm happy to do it. If it's a bit bigger then I charge extra. The key thing I find is how you interact with the customer. Don't get flustered, dont get offended. Just state it plain and simple, just like if you were working at McDonalds and a customer asked for extra cheese;

"cheese is an extra 50c'

Real plain and obvious there. Be polite but stand your ground. I find in 90% of cases, customers pay, they were just trying their luck (and why not?). The other 10% decline and decide to do the work themselves, and who can blame then with money being so tight?

The trouble area is where tree guys get flustered... I never have understood this, but I guess they get backed into a corner and feel they need to keep the job. This usually results in them agreeing reluctantly to do the work even though they dont want to, then feeling resentful of the customer and not completing the work to a high standard to make up for it. Don't do that! It just leaves bad feelings on both sides, and ruins your reputation. Have the guts to stand behind your pricing in a non aggressive way.

Shaun

 

[TreeAce]

I simply take into account if i am ahead or behind on the job, or on time for getting to the next job. If tossing wood into a bucket for the guy makes me look good then wtf. But sometimes I have to tell people NO , firmly but politely. I have had people say "I will pay u extra" and still had to say NO cuz I need to be somewhere else and I just cant do it today. But if its 3:00 and I dont have another job to get to and prolly figured an eight hour day for the job then hell ya...I move the wood. I MIT even dolly it....down hill:msp_wink:

 

[Groundman One]

In general I have no problem doing a few extras. If the guy asks me to load up the bucket once or twice, sure. If he's a nice guy, maybe even three times, whatever. But when it looks like the guy is trying to take the whole job to another level without paying for it, that's something else. And that's what this guy was doing. It's just irritating when you get a guy with mad cash trying to get all kinds of freebies and then acting like the wounded party when he has to actually pay for them.

The way I see it, how would he have acted if I just went up to him in the middle of the job and asked for a little extra money. No reason, just give it to me because I want it. He would have thought I was smoking crack.

 

[Rftreeman]

yeah, sure, we'll help you load it up right after we leave....

 

[fishercat]

It's the new era.

It's called the ME generation.

 

[sgreanbeans]

We just had a deal where the HO had us do a couple little extra things, no problem, then the neighbor comes out and says "Joe (HO) said you guys would take care of this also", I go around back and this guy has a whole truck full of brush. I smiled, he smiled. I said no! That would be 500. Guys looks at me and says "thats alot more than free"
He took a card and said he would call me! Yeah right, hes waiting for the next guy to roll down the street!

 

[Bigus Termitius]

It all depends on whether or not it hinders or helps, or if things went smooth and I'm done early and they want a little something more. I don't mind doing a little extra to make it all go round.

 

[sgreanbeans]

For your viewing pleasure!

Free Cedar Tree

 

[easy-lift guy]

It's a matter of time and what I agreed to do in the first place. Customers can and will pile on if they can get away with it. Their neighbors or total strangers will also jump on the band wagon as well. Good will for your customer is important to a point. Beyond that as a professional you must draw the line and be firm but not loose your temper. As far as neighbors or total strangers approaching you on the job for additional work or opinions it should only take place if you have time. Time is a commodity that is to valuable to squander since it can never be replaced. " some customers need more training than others". Good hunting.
elg

 

[Groundman One]

It all depends on whether or not it hinders or helps, or if things went smooth and I'm done early and they want a little something more. I don't mind doing a little extra to make it all go round.

That would seem to be the right way to go. One thing I didn't mention was that between Friday and Monday, the guy had spray painted a few extra trees. (All the trees we agreed to he marked with orange paint.) Come Monday, it's "Hey fella, that tree wasn't orange the last time I was here." After shuffling his feet and fumbling for words, he just said, "oh, well, forget about that one then." We cut it anyway.

An hour before we finished on Monday, my buddy (it was his customer to deal with for finances) told him to have the check made out in the full amount because we're leaving in an hour and don't want to wait. He paid in full on the spot.

I think the customer is one of those guys who can't buy a cup of coffee without trying to get a free donut with it. It's his game. But we did good work, stood our ground with him, gave him a few extras, and took no ****. And guess what? He's having us back for another two days of work. I think you just have to get past the breaking (breaking-in?) point with guys like that and then it flows. I guess he just needs to know what level you deal on before he can mellow and just deal with you normally.

 

[fishercat]

I don't mind a couple small extras.....

like a sapling or trimming a couple branches.

If you had written how many trees on the contract,there would have been no surprises.

 

[easy-lift guy]

Sounds like a good ending. I know the type of customer you are referring to. Might I suggest not only having an accurate count of trees in advance of work but in addition mark each tree with surveying tape, leave you mark and date.

 

[TreeAce]

Last summer we was doing some small storm work and a young lady come flying out her front door, slippers and sweats in the morning, and flags me over. Me and my dude walk over and she says.."do u do free tree removal?" I stared at her for a minute and said "I can give u a free estimate". She looked alittle confused but said ok. I walk around back and there stands this hacked up mulberry. So i write up a quick estimate, remove wood leave stump...blah blah. and hand it to her. She stares at it and says "who do i send this to?" I said..."I cut the tree and then you pay me, its really simple" and she said "I GOTTA PAY FOR IT?" LOL..she said "well,nevermind" and went back into her house. I am not sure why she was so confused.... she obv had some poor info, just thought after a storm the city or state just pays for all the clean up. The storm wasnt even very bad at all. We still joke about it..."free tree work fridays!" and oh ya...her tree wasnt even damaged by the storm! She was clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

[Groundman One]

like a sapling or trimming a couple branches.

If you had written how many trees on the contract,there would have been no surprises.

Written contracts are rare with us. We are strictly handshake and a smile kind of guys. Is that innefficient and possibly dangerous on a business level? Absolutely. There's no question you are right. But we manage to go through 95% of our work in a very easy going and stress-free way, both for us and the customer, and that is very important to us. It's who we are.

That "liberal pinko scumbag" tag under my name isn't there for nothing. :msp_wink:

 

[TreeAce]

Written contracts are rare with us. We are strictly handshake and a smile kind of guys. Is that innefficient and possibly dangerous on a business level? Absolutely. There's no question you are right. But we manage to go through 95% of our work in a very easy going and stress-free way, both for us and the customer, and that is very important to us. It's who we are.

That "liberal pinko scumbag" tag under my name isn't there for nothing. :msp_wink:

I think most written contracts arnt worth the paper they are written on. As far as tree work goes that is. If its not notarized then what good is it? I mean really? Its about as binding as a verbal agreement. Of course I dont know much.

 

[ozzy42]

It's a matter of time and what I agreed to do in the first place. Customers can and will pile on if they can get away with it. Their neighbors or total strangers will also jump on the band wagon as well. Good will for your customer is important to a point. Beyond that as a professional you must draw the line and be firm but not loose your temper. As far as neighbors or total strangers approaching you on the job for additional work or opinions it should only take place if you have time. Time is a commodity that is to valuable to squander since it can never be replaced. " some customers need more training than others". Good hunting.
elg

Howdy neighbor.Welome to the site.

I think most written contracts arnt worth the paper they are written on. As far as tree work goes that is. If its not notarized then what good is it? I mean really? Its about as binding as a verbal agreement. Of course I dont know much.

True, written contracts can be subjective on prune jobs but are pretty undisputibale [sp?] when it comes to removals.Such as #of trees to be removed amount of deris removal,length of wood to remain on site etc.
Though I never have been to court with a customer,there have been a few times at the end of the job where they expected me to do an hour or more extra work for the same money.Ain't gonna happen.They may as well be trying to reach in my front pocket and help theirselves to my cash.Amounts to the same thing as far as I'm concerned.Getting the proposal that THEY signed back in front of them reminds them of what the agreement was less they have forgotten.
I do it politely,but firm.

 

[easy-lift guy]

Tree Ace your story about the confused lady was priceless. One week after Hurricane Andrew his South East Florida, I went down with a crew of voluenteers from an organization I belonged to at the time. As expected the destruction was more than I was expecting. It was a long weekend and about a dozen or so of us did what we could to help cut up and drag out trees and plant material for removal. As far as the citizens still living in their homes or what was left of said homes, none asked us to to anything. We would approach their homes and asked if they needed any help. Most were still in shock to a point but were happy we were there, we were as well. We did what we could and moved on to the next home. I posted earlier on about Time being a very valuable commodity and should not be squandered. I believe my exception to that would be in time of a natural disaster. That time has nothing to do with a clock or profit. It's helping people really in need. With the many natural disasters occurring here in the US so far for 2011 there will be a lot of goodwill and helping of many persons coming down the pike. I hope as professionals we can keep up with this trying year.
elg