Cutting a havy leaner
- Thread starter c5rulz
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wouldn't do a bit of good,,shes sooooo old and set in her ways,,shed die first,,before admitting she was wrong....LEFTIST elitists are that way..............takes a MIGHTY big stick for, a hard tude....
And that there is the honest-to-god-truth... I won't deny she could add much worthwhile information and (yes) lessons here. She'd even be quite enjoyable to argue with if she could stay away from the denigrating comments.
But the other honest-to-god-truth is ... she looks down on anyone not of her ideological mind-set... and that's just sad.
If everyone thought that way... heck, I'd have damn few friends (like two... maybe 8 if we count a few here... OK 6
).In my book, an @$$hole ain't nothin' we all ain't got equally... it's the holier (pun intended)-than-thou that gets me goin' every time.
*
Am I like the only person that doesn't take notice or care as to what forum they're in?
Love the country setting,with the Victorian style house. Very similar to my parents house but with three dorm windows.
Thanks for sharing. You're very brave...lol
Here comes the not so pleasant part..The educational part, we all go through.
The constructive criticism.
Its easier to not know and take it than have to drop your face through chain of command as been a certified faller dosen't give me free rein to fall on many jobs. Its like a fighter...you're only as good as your last fight. I know QSTs(certifiers) that have given me competency audits for almost 10 yrs and I have worked for a few directly, gone to their house to watch the fights/the game but there's no free bees.
Many of THEMcouldn't do the very job they're teaching to a high level and thats hard to take.
Especially for $1000 to $1200 many make contract daily. There's those that teach and those that do.
I couldn't understand what you were saying about the hole in your plan in regards to your two spotters.
Bottom line is you have no excuse what so ever,the onus is on you 100%.
Your'e the faller, falling on a public right of way. You control your falling zone and environment 100%! If you had a near miss then I'd stop blaming others and wake up. You didn't exercise due diligence and neither did the land owner
as I'm assuming you aren't insured? Neglagance causing death/wrongful death for both I'd imagine.
This action here^^ (not the guy on the bike) is why Canada;for sure,have safety rules and certifications. (Trained flaggers ect)
My fallers compo ia 8.63 % here.
There?.. I bid on work in Alaska first in '94
And then found out compo was 30% so guys would co-op, have all workers part owners So nobody had insurance.
I heard guys talk about 38% on here.
Thats a mess! Sad for the honest safety conscious man down there.
Some may think I'm harsh? Maybe they would see it different if it was there grandchild getting trailered behind that bike by their daughter. Or just a youth under 12? Is the 9 year old stupid?
Tell that to these guys and the courts after you killed their child? You not only didn't think before you cut,you didn't think before you talked this time guy. Poor choices.
A haven't even got to the falling of the tree yet. Which is ONLY 1/3 of falling.
The other 2/3 is going about the falling.
On a positive note; 'going about the falling of the tree.
-you discussed it with someone with more experience
-you took extra saftey precautions so you felt comfortable for your safety.
So thats possitive
Oh cheer up
We learn through pain, let it be someone else's accident we learn through Because thats what it is,a trend.
Love the country setting,with the Victorian style house. Very similar to my parents house but with three dorm windows.
Thanks for sharing. You're very brave...lol
Here comes the not so pleasant part..The educational part, we all go through.
The constructive criticism.
Its easier to not know and take it than have to drop your face through chain of command as been a certified faller dosen't give me free rein to fall on many jobs. Its like a fighter...you're only as good as your last fight. I know QSTs(certifiers) that have given me competency audits for almost 10 yrs and I have worked for a few directly, gone to their house to watch the fights/the game but there's no free bees.
Many of THEMcouldn't do the very job they're teaching to a high level and thats hard to take.
Especially for $1000 to $1200 many make contract daily. There's those that teach and those that do.
I couldn't understand what you were saying about the hole in your plan in regards to your two spotters.
Bottom line is you have no excuse what so ever,the onus is on you 100%.
Your'e the faller, falling on a public right of way. You control your falling zone and environment 100%! If you had a near miss then I'd stop blaming others and wake up. You didn't exercise due diligence and neither did the land owner
as I'm assuming you aren't insured? Neglagance causing death/wrongful death for both I'd imagine.
This action here^^ (not the guy on the bike) is why Canada;for sure,have safety rules and certifications. (Trained flaggers ect)
My fallers compo ia 8.63 % here.
There?.. I bid on work in Alaska first in '94
And then found out compo was 30% so guys would co-op, have all workers part owners So nobody had insurance.
I heard guys talk about 38% on here.
Thats a mess! Sad for the honest safety conscious man down there.
Some may think I'm harsh? Maybe they would see it different if it was there grandchild getting trailered behind that bike by their daughter. Or just a youth under 12? Is the 9 year old stupid?
Tell that to these guys and the courts after you killed their child? You not only didn't think before you cut,you didn't think before you talked this time guy. Poor choices.
A haven't even got to the falling of the tree yet. Which is ONLY 1/3 of falling.
The other 2/3 is going about the falling.
On a positive note; 'going about the falling of the tree.
-you discussed it with someone with more experience
-you took extra saftey precautions so you felt comfortable for your safety.
So thats possitive
Oh cheer up
We learn through pain, let it be someone else's accident we learn through Because thats what it is,a trend.
stihly dan
Addicted to ArboristSite
Not sure what was said, if there was a dislike feature I would not have used either. We are all not pro's but are learning none the less.
Interesting solution possibility. Trouble is that the fuel used up and potential chain damage from embedded nails will yield a negative gain.
Techniques and falling cuts.
Ok like Gypo Logger said.. off the lean
on a heavy leaner don't fall directly with the lean when all possible. Is that the crack I see on the high side on the butt?
The side you cut off on your attempt to do that beaver tail? Looks like it. Well that would have been a non issue split had you cut your undercut about 45° off lean to the low side. Sometimes I'll go much further to the side and cut to the ground if its not rotten...to get the stronger fibers using a "Jonny hold me tight" If I want the swing. If you stall it to much the presure may cause root pull and lose it anyway.
Or pull up the whole root wad with big softwoods like cedar on rocky faces So not advised there. A tail or triger is best for them To prevent that grewsome outcome.
Obviously to me the low side is the left side of the direction of fall, confirmed by the compression marks in the pic.
The result in the end was you cut your high side completely off as soon as you cut the last band of sapwood in your B/C. The tree was instantly lost and rolled off the low side. F*...I should be on CSI..lol
The suspected perp in question. I'm just kidding.
-Failing to take measures to control the fall..hmmm
No anti- kickback step
Basically undercut your undercut and cuts of holding wood corners. You want me to be brutally honest right?
Holding wood dosen't mean $hit on the low side.(compression side)if you nip a corner on a tree like this but too much will add extra stress in the tension. But if you cut that top corner (tension wood) even a bit and shes gone. Thats what your saying "it sunk" sure it did to the side. Your undercut was totally irerelivent
So now we have:
- cuts tension holding wood off
-no anti- kickback step
-no longer an undercut. ..Right?
Dangerous cuts=dangerous results
Wrong direction with the undercut from the start.
I like to say; " you start with $hit, you end with $hit; when it comes to falling tree and 'falling' woman.
As far as the boring? Yes there is a chance you could be caught in the side binde.
If I'm boring from the high side I will go slow near the bottom and stop a few times to feel pressure sometimes 1/2 " at a time. But in this case if I needed to cut the U/C where you did I would have taken out the bottom side after a shallow undercut,
(You probably did)
As much as it will take but not exceed 25%
DON'T CUT the poor BEAVER'S TENSION leg off. He'll fall wrong.
Its the type of job that is not like riding a bike, Its easy to get rusty at the highest level. I can be a butcher one day and a surgeon the next. Really? We don't have bad days ,we have bad moments.
you made a couple smart choices too.
I understand guys are learning and want to learn..but you may not realize this is pros keep learning too. So there isn't a know it all thing going on...we just know what we know...sometimes it came at a 'cost'
Cheers
Ok like Gypo Logger said.. off the lean
on a heavy leaner don't fall directly with the lean when all possible. Is that the crack I see on the high side on the butt?
The side you cut off on your attempt to do that beaver tail? Looks like it. Well that would have been a non issue split had you cut your undercut about 45° off lean to the low side. Sometimes I'll go much further to the side and cut to the ground if its not rotten...to get the stronger fibers using a "Jonny hold me tight" If I want the swing. If you stall it to much the presure may cause root pull and lose it anyway.
Or pull up the whole root wad with big softwoods like cedar on rocky faces So not advised there. A tail or triger is best for them To prevent that grewsome outcome.
Obviously to me the low side is the left side of the direction of fall, confirmed by the compression marks in the pic.
The result in the end was you cut your high side completely off as soon as you cut the last band of sapwood in your B/C. The tree was instantly lost and rolled off the low side. F*...I should be on CSI..lol
The suspected perp in question. I'm just kidding.
-Failing to take measures to control the fall..hmmm
No anti- kickback step
Basically undercut your undercut and cuts of holding wood corners. You want me to be brutally honest right?
Holding wood dosen't mean $hit on the low side.(compression side)if you nip a corner on a tree like this but too much will add extra stress in the tension. But if you cut that top corner (tension wood) even a bit and shes gone. Thats what your saying "it sunk" sure it did to the side. Your undercut was totally irerelivent
So now we have:
- cuts tension holding wood off
-no anti- kickback step
-no longer an undercut. ..Right?
Dangerous cuts=dangerous results
Wrong direction with the undercut from the start.
I like to say; " you start with $hit, you end with $hit; when it comes to falling tree and 'falling' woman.
As far as the boring? Yes there is a chance you could be caught in the side binde.
If I'm boring from the high side I will go slow near the bottom and stop a few times to feel pressure sometimes 1/2 " at a time. But in this case if I needed to cut the U/C where you did I would have taken out the bottom side after a shallow undercut,
(You probably did)
As much as it will take but not exceed 25%
DON'T CUT the poor BEAVER'S TENSION leg off. He'll fall wrong.
Its the type of job that is not like riding a bike, Its easy to get rusty at the highest level. I can be a butcher one day and a surgeon the next. Really? We don't have bad days ,we have bad moments.
you made a couple smart choices too.
I understand guys are learning and want to learn..but you may not realize this is pros keep learning too. So there isn't a know it all thing going on...we just know what we know...sometimes it came at a 'cost'
Cheers
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
Here is an informative tutorial for dropping heavy leaners. Lol
Trx250r180
Saw polisher
Double_Diamond
ArboristSite Member
It looks like you did an nice job getting the tree down. I can't comment on that too much because that is not my profession. I do know quite a bit about working in the road and the dangers to the both motorists/pedestrians/cyclist and also the workers. In general I would say that tree companies are the worst about proper traffic control and safety when working in the public right of way. A flagger is not making the tree company any money. Usually a couple cones get put out and the motorist are left to fend for themselves or a groundman who knows nothing at all about traffic control tries to flag. On quiet road this can work but I am always amazed at the crap they try and get away with on busy streets. Motorist/pedestrian/cyclist are not looking out for trees that may be falling into the roadway. Usually they are not aware of much of anything that is happening around them, they are too busy talking on their cell phones. Many times if a driver sees someone standing in the road they will just go around them. That is where having signs posted and an orange vest on becomes very important. Drivers are taught to pay attention when they see those things.
c5rulz
Addicted to ArboristSite
The incident with the biker was a non issue. Nothing came close to endangering anyone's safety. My point is we were preparing to drop it and were almost ready and the guy goes right on through. Perhaps the stylish spandex biker pants cut off blood flow to the brain.
After Westcoastfaller comments I did a little more research. A little of what he said was not apparent to me at first but the explanation made sense. This video explains it well with the physics behind it. If it is too slow, go to about the 6 min. mark,
After Westcoastfaller comments I did a little more research. A little of what he said was not apparent to me at first but the explanation made sense. This video explains it well with the physics behind it. If it is too slow, go to about the 6 min. mark,
Skeans
Addicted to ArboristSite
Come out here and cut red alder you'll learn fast about leaners and barber chair.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Are you suggesting we should move "here"?
I will add that they should cut red alder during a cold spell to really get a thrill. But don't move here. Cut a few and go home.
^^^My "physics beaver" analogy didn't do it? ...lol...hmmmm
Well like I said;
There's those that teach and those that do
I'm ok with that.
Why would a Faller care about the principals of Physics;
Matter,Force,Energy & Motion...
or living
dam it.
Time to play the game! Ha ha
It's all about the game and how you play it.
All about control and if you can take it.
All about your debt and if you can pay it.
It's all about pain and who's gonna make it.
"I" am the game, you don't wanna play me.
"I "am control, no way you can change me.
"I"am heavy debt, no way you can pay me.
"I"am the pain and I know you can't take me.
Look over your shoulder, ready to run.
Like a good little bitch, from a smoking gun.
"I"am the game and "I" make the rules.
So move on out here and die like a fool.
Try to figure out what "my "moods gonna be.
Come on over sucker, why don't you ask "me"?
Don't you forget that there's price you can pay
Cause "I" am the game and I want to play....
Ha ha
~Moterhead
Yes well if you want to get deeper than
"Don't cut the beavers tension leg off and
The apple fell out of the tree and hit Newton then rap you mind around this^^^^stuff c5rulz posted.
I've never watched to much of anything I've liked but I'll endorse a lot of that.
I could add things I would do in conjunction with.
Wasn't to impressed with Gypo's one.
...I'll add to that later too.
Tierd now though.
Cool post c5
Well like I said;
There's those that teach
and those that do I'm ok with that.Why would a Faller care about the principals of Physics;
Matter,Force,Energy & Motion...
or living
dam it.Time to play the game! Ha ha
It's all about the game and how you play it.
All about control and if you can take it.
All about your debt and if you can pay it.
It's all about pain and who's gonna make it.
"I" am the game, you don't wanna play me.
"I "am control, no way you can change me.
"I"am heavy debt, no way you can pay me.
"I"am the pain and I know you can't take me.
Look over your shoulder, ready to run.
Like a good little bitch, from a smoking gun.
"I"am the game and "I" make the rules.
So move on out here and die like a fool.
Try to figure out what "my "moods gonna be.
Come on over sucker, why don't you ask "me"?
Don't you forget that there's price you can pay
Cause "I" am the game and I want to play....
Ha ha
~Moterhead
Yes well if you want to get deeper than
"Don't cut the beavers tension leg off and
The apple fell out of the tree and hit Newton then rap you mind around this^^^^stuff c5rulz posted.
I've never watched to much of anything I've liked but I'll endorse a lot of that.
I could add things I would do in conjunction with.
Wasn't to impressed with Gypo's one.
...I'll add to that later too.
Tierd now though.
Cool post c5
Skeans
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'd agree I like my land personally, the counties are buying enough and Cali people.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
Ah yes, red alder and arbutus. Always reaching out for the sun, however they may.
Are arbutus protected on the U.S coast? I think they are on Van Isle. B.C.
Are arbutus protected on the U.S coast? I think they are on Van Isle. B.C.
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
Arbutus, also known as madrone. I'm talking Pacific Madrone, but I think there is a Texas madrone if I'm not mistooken.
Ironworker
Addicted to ArboristSite
The incident with the biker was a non issue. Nothing came close to endangering anyone's safety. My point is we were preparing to drop it and were almost ready and the guy goes right on through. Perhaps the stylish spandex biker pants cut off blood flow to the brain.
After Westcoastfaller comments I did a little more research. A little of what he said was not apparent to me at first but the explanation made sense. This video explains it well with the physics behind it. If it is too slow, go to about the 6 min. mark,
You still don't get it do you. I don't think you blaming his tight shorts will hold up in court. A little acountability goes a long way.
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