Dangerous technique?

[beastmaster]

I caught a lot of slack for a cut I did on a removal. First time I've ever worked for this company and the owner was a tyrant(I can be a hard head also). It was a muli trunk ash over a house. I was using the tallest trunk to catch the others. One of the small trunks went over the house with a pronounce lean next to the chimney.
above the house I anchored the butt and tied the top of the leaner to the higher other trunk . When I started my cut and the trunk started moving, the top tie in pulled tight and cause the trunk I was cutting to change direction 90 deg. away from the house, when I cut all the way though my anchor rope caught the butt.(both ropes were controlled on the ground.)
This freak this guy out, he started yelling at me, told me to get out of the tree..
I was almost done with the tree after that so I just finished. He hired me for that tree because he didn't think his guys could do it.
He figured it would take all day, it took me 3 hours. He didn't want to pay me(I charged for the job, not by the hour).
Any one else ever use this technique or feel it was dangerous?

 

[GLOBOTREE]

anyways...you got the Tree down right? so the guy freaked out? was anyone injured? was there any property damage? and did you enjoy watching some freak yell at you? things happen all the time, unexpectedly is when a second look at yourself warrants self question. If you knew this wood happen and made up for it, i wood have likely done the same, chimney was in the way.

 

[beastmaster]

It did just what I know it would, and it was faster and safer.
I sometimes invent things as I go. That wasn't my first rodeo.
Why hire me if your not going to trust me.

 

[TreeAce]

From the picture in my head of what u did it sounds like standard tree work to me. Except maybe a bit more advanced ..maybe TREE WORK 202 not 101. I used to work for a guy (The "bucket truck idiot" if u saw that thread) who would freak out about things he didnt understand. I think he was struggling to be or feel like the "alpha" male....IDK...some people are just A holes ..keep that in mind.

 

[NCTREE]

Screw that guy! You did what any seasoned climber would do in that situation. You were even extra careful by butt tieing it too. The tree is down, no one hurt, chimney is still there, thats the goal. You might be right about him not wanting to pay you the full amount since you hammered that tree.After you finished the tree you should went over to him extended your hand and said "pay up sucka!" next time he calls you to do a job tell him you want double pay now to put up with his jerk attitude.

 

[Jeffsaw]

I caught a lot of slack for a cut I did on a removal. First time I've ever worked for this company and the owner was a tyrant(I can be a hard head also). It was a muli trunk ash over a house. I was using the tallest trunk to catch the others. One of the small trunks went over the house with a pronounce lean next to the chimney.
above the house I anchored the butt and tied the top of the leaner to the higher other trunk . When I started my cut and the trunk started moving, the top tie in pulled tight and cause the trunk I was cutting to change direction 90 deg. away from the house, when I cut all the way though my anchor rope caught the butt.(both ropes were controlled on the ground.)
This freak this guy out, he started yelling at me, told me to get out of the tree..
I was almost done with the tree after that so I just finished. He hired me for that tree because he didn't think his guys could do it.
He figured it would take all day, it took me 3 hours. He didn't want to pay me(I charged for the job, not by the hour).
Any one else ever use this technique or feel it was dangerous?

It seems like everything was controlled. Good job.

 

[treemandan]

I caught a lot of slack for a cut I did on a removal. First time I've ever worked for this company and the owner was a tyrant(I can be a hard head also). It was a muli trunk ash over a house. I was using the tallest trunk to catch the others. One of the small trunks went over the house with a pronounce lean next to the chimney.
above the house I anchored the butt and tied the top of the leaner to the higher other trunk . When I started my cut and the trunk started moving, the top tie in pulled tight and cause the trunk I was cutting to change direction 90 deg. away from the house, when I cut all the way though my anchor rope caught the butt.(both ropes were controlled on the ground.)
This freak this guy out, he started yelling at me, told me to get out of the tree..
I was almost done with the tree after that so I just finished. He hired me for that tree because he didn't think his guys could do it.
He figured it would take all day, it took me 3 hours. He didn't want to pay me(I charged for the job, not by the hour).
Any one else ever use this technique or feel it was dangerous?

Yes, its very dangerous thing to do and here's why: some people don't like the people they hire knowing more than them.
Its gonna be tough for ya bro but don't let em drag ya down.

 

[treemandan]

And believe it or not Beast, you answered a question I had on my mind today. I was thinking if there are the same dumb ####s out there as here.


Sometimes its a little longer to rig down but as you know the tip and butt tie method is pretty dam awesome simple as it is and will come in handy for some really tough stuff and it doesn't really slow everything down cause you just made one very controlled cut rather that who know what? Right? Right. Screw that dude, I have been there.

 

[mic687]

I have used this many times for stuff over a roof or other obsticle and the only problem I can see is if you don't tip tie out far enough the butt can shift back on you. It will only take once or twice and you will do it right from then on. It is interesting when people watch and exclaim I had no idea how you were going to do that.

 

[treemandan]

I have used this many times for stuff over a roof or other obsticle and the only problem I can see is if you don't tip tie out far enough the butt can shift back on you. It will only take once or twice and you will do it right from then on. It is interesting when people watch and exclaim I had no idea how you were going to do that.

And therein lies the problem that Beasty had: I mean if they could not figure out what he was up to by watching him set the freaking ropes then man, I just dunno.

Sure he could have explained what was up but probably didn't think he had to. Its true many an unknowing groundy beleives that every tree comes down all crazy like Evil Kenival was doing it. I have been around, a lot of people get confused ( they really do, no joke and some have been in it for years) when you put the rope on the tip and if you use two ropes, well, forget it.

 

[ozzy42]

I caught a lot of slack for a cut I did on a removal. First time I've ever worked for this company and the owner was a tyrant(I can be a hard head also). It was a muli trunk ash over a house. I was using the tallest trunk to catch the others. One of the small trunks went over the house with a pronounce lean next to the chimney.
above the house I anchored the butt and tied the top of the leaner to the higher other trunk . When I started my cut and the trunk started moving, the top tie in pulled tight and cause the trunk I was cutting to change direction 90 deg. away from the house, when I cut all the way though my anchor rope caught the butt.(both ropes were controlled on the ground.)
This freak this guy out, he started yelling at me, told me to get out of the tree..
I was almost done with the tree after that so I just finished. He hired me for that tree because he didn't think his guys could do it.
He figured it would take all day, it took me 3 hours. He didn't want to pay me(I charged for the job, not by the hour).
Any one else ever use this technique or feel it was dangerous?

Only thing that sounded dangerous is a man working a pro climber ,then not wanting to pay him.
AAAH HAAAAELLE NO:deadhorse:

 

[beastmaster]

I have to admit I maybe got some kind of sick thrill when the trunk started heading for the tile roof and chimney and he started screaming and freaking, and then slowly and controlled it started moving almost 90 deg. away from the house.
I did explain in great detail to the ground crew who were handling the ropes what was going to happen and their part. It depended on their handling of the ropes perfect. They did a really good job and were eager to learn. They had never seen a speed line used before. They went home knowing a few new techniques
I did get paid.

 

[Rftreeman]

the guy that freaked must not be as good as he thinks he is, we used that method a lot over power lines when there wasn't room to hinge the piece straight down we used this to let it swing sideways then down...

 

[limbwalker54]

That guy sounds like someone who never climbed before......
I had my second climber (me being the first one) out a few months back and before I could say "hey why don't you" he had the tip and butt tied on a long piece of maple over a chimney...my groundies were all over it, and it came out perfect. No freakin' out here, because I would have done the same thing.

Sounds like this guy had a lot to learn from you but didn't want to admit it!

-Mike

 

[tree md]

That's pretty much how I was taught to do solid, multi-lead trees from jump street. As long as everything is solid it is a pretty basic technique. One thing that I like to do on trees like that is set a TIP in the central leader that I am lowering from so I can swing around to the other leaders to work. Just unclip from the TIP before you make your cut and have your groundy flip or send you the line back after you make your cut (that's the safe way to do it). That's how I do nearly all of my Maples. Saves a butt load of time.

I've worked for people who have freaked when they see how I work and how big of pieces I take at a time. That's how I was taught and that is my style. Some people like to climb the tree three times, nipping at it as they go. That has never been my style. I'm into bringing them down in the most efficient way and putting them on the ground quick, fast and in a hurry. Knock on wood, I've never done any damage to a structure in 20 years of climbing.

There were a lot of guys who let me go when I was younger and told me I would never make it in this business. Funny thing is I am still around and a lot of them are not... And some of them are in the grave.

 

[millbilly]

good job

Thats what we have always called a top line with a butt. Just courious did you put a notch near your butt rope? I allways do it gives me more control when I walk the limb around. after all the weight is in the top line throw your butt off and use it as a guide line to pull it clear of obsticals

 

[beastmaster]

Thats what we have always called a top line with a butt. Just courious did you put a notch near your butt rope? I allways do it gives me more control when I walk the limb around. after all the weight is in the top line throw your butt off and use it as a guide line to pull it clear of obsticals

I didn't use a notch cut on that particular leader, but have in other situations. That was a fun easy removal considering it was mostly over a house with a tile roof with the chimney right there. One leader was straight up and made it easy to remove most the tree using it. I skidded (speedline)part of the tree down on one side using slings on the same rope I was lowing rest the tree with. It went really fast like that.
Lots of times you have to decide is it safer to make many cuts and risk a piece getting lose and hitting a tile roof or take out a large section and have only one cut to worry about.
This is all basic stuff, but the level of professionalism in these parts often fall short of what it should be. Lots of butcher and illegals have made the pay scale so bad there isn't much incentive for anyone to want to chose tree work as a profession and learn more then the basics.
That being said, there are some great experts around, but their far and few between. beastmaster

 

[ropensaddle]

How could you do something so dangerous, that's nuts now get out of that tree ya hear me:monkey:

 

[ropensaddle]

How could you do something so dangerous, that's nuts now get out of that tree ya hear me:monkey:

So's I can do it

 

[tree md]

I didn't use a notch cut on that particular leader, but have in other situations. That was a fun easy removal considering it was mostly over a house with a tile roof with the chimney right there. One leader was straight up and made it easy to remove most the tree using it. I skidded (speedline)part of the tree down on one side using slings on the same rope I was lowing rest the tree with. It went really fast like that.
Lots of times you have to decide is it safer to make many cuts and risk a piece getting lose and hitting a tile roof or take out a large section and have only one cut to worry about.
This is all basic stuff, but the level of professionalism in these parts often fall short of what it should be. Lots of butcher and illegals have made the pay scale so bad there isn't much incentive for anyone to want to chose tree work as a profession and learn more then the basics.
That being said, there are some great experts around, but their far and few between. beastmaster

I've been to your neck of the woods a few times. I love the Riverside, Carlsbad area and North of there as well. Some of the most beautiful country and beaches I have seen. I like to vacation there. I checked on pay scale for a climber out there a few years back because I was considering moving there but with the cost of living it would be hard for what they pay a climber. I saw a 60 YO guy take down a Redwood up in Sonoma County a few years back and chatted with him. He told me what he was getting payed for the job and my jaw dropped... I think that it's probably because there are a lot of ex/unemployed loggers in that community and the work just doesn't pay very well. He was doing that job for about half of what I would get here for a similar scale job... Of course that was a few years ago too. Could be that the depression hit there first and had yet to catch up with me in my area.