De-ethanoling your fuel

[cemiii]

A lot of you probably are lucky to live in a state where you can easily get your hands on E-0 gasoline, but in places like CA, and NV its really hard to come by except for the $22 a quart big box premix.

I've read that it's a simple process to take the ethanol out of gas with water. After reading up on this, I thought I'd give it a try. I bought a 2.5 gal clear bottle of distilled water at the grocery store. Poured 2 gals out in clean bottles leaving a half gal in the spigoted plastic container. I then pored in roughly 1.5 gal of high test E-10 and shook it thoroughly for 5 minutes. Then let it sit for 10 minutes to separate. Apparently, ethanol mixes far more readily with water than gas.

Draining off the lowest level (pure water) and the mid layer (water mixed with ethanol) leaves, in theory, about 1.35 gal of non-ethanol gasoline. Repeat a few times and I've got 5 gals of E-0 to E-1 maybe.

I've added 50:1 Husky premixed syn blend with stabilizer and have started using this mix in my 2 strokes.

We'll see if I can now get more than a season out of this without rebuilding every carb and fuel line in all my small garden and arbor tools. If anyone has concerns I'd love to hear them hopefully before I ruin my tools.

 

[smokey7]

Hopefully your actual octane is ok once done. I think blended e gas uses the ethanol to assist with the octane rating. Pay close attention to any low octane behavior as in hot running ping runon hard starting with recoil ripping back and blistered plug.

 

[cemiii]

Thank you. Maybe I should be adding an octane booster.

 

[GPX433Todd]

Mr. Funnel- Google it. Sounds a bit more simple.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I think you may need a simpler method. That sounds like more work than just dumping the gas and letting it run until it runs the fuel dry at the end of every season.

 

[brandonstc6]

They make an additive to counteract the ethanol. I know a guy in the gasoline distribution business. He told he that by federal law, ethanol free gas can contain up to 4.5% ethanol.


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[brandonstc6]

Ethanol is partially miscible in gasoline. That means that some of the ethanol could settle out but not all. Adding water to gas doesn't seem like a good idea to me. People have told me that have had good luck with the additive to counteract the ethanol. I use this addictive too with good results.


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[Franny K]

They make an additive to counteract the ethanol. I know a guy in the gasoline distribution business. He told he that by federal law, ethanol free gas can contain up to 4.5% ethanol.


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It would be nice if you had a source like a link to post. I have wondered how reliable the free aspect of the ethanol free gasoline I get in Newport Ohio is.

Try putting some words in a search engine and see what you find. I found 1 out of 15 samples contained ethanol and complaints are followed up on, at least in Oklahoma. Then that place tested ethanol free in two weeks.

 

[Franny K]

Draining off the lowest level (pure water) and the mid layer (water mixed with ethanol) leaves, in theory, about 1.35 gal of non-ethanol gasoline. Repeat a few times and I've got 5 gals of E-0 to E-1 maybe.

.

This does not seem logical. If this were true you could add a bunch of water to some vodka, stir it, put a straw in all the way to the bottom and drink pure water.

 

[merc_man]

Water and gas dont mix. (In my opinion) id be afaid of freezng in the winter months and messing with the octane.

 

[merc_man]

This does not seem logical. If this were true you could add a bunch of water to some vodka, stir it, put a straw in all the way to the bottom and drink pure water.

How do you know when the pure vodca turns to water.[emoji6]

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

I thought it mostly turns to piss.... oh that's beer.

All we have is E10 in my state... never had issues. Winter comes, 2-strokes get run dry and a splash of tru-fuel. 4 strokes with marine stabil mixed in. In-season I try to only keep enough mix so it doesn't sit more than 2 months.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I buy Costco gas known to have ethanol and have not had any problems for more than 10 years. It does seem to keep the fuel dry, but have replaced some fuel lines. I stay away from synthetic oils and use a petrol based. Thanks

 

[Little Al]

Hopefully your actual octane is ok once done. I think blended e gas uses the ethanol to assist with the octane rating. Pay close attention to any low octane behavior as in hot running ping runon hard starting with recoil ripping back and blistered plug.

Could you please explain the recoil snatching back as related to a yes/no of E in fuel being reduced. I'd have thought it was more an issue of ignition timing & that compression ratio is a more to do with octane rating of fuel.

 

[Mad Professor]

This does not seem logical. If this were true you could add a bunch of water to some vodka, stir it, put a straw in all the way to the bottom and drink pure water.

Nope.

Water and ethyl alcohol are miscible, soluble in all proportions. So is ethanol and hydrocarbons.

Water and gasoline/hydrocarbons are nearly insoluble, that is why before E10 small amounts of water would separate.

Ethanol acts as a co-solvent for water and hydrocarbons in a mixture. As long as there is enough ethanol ,and not too much water or hydrocarbon it remains a single phase.

Add more water, and it will separate into an aqueous phase also containing a large percentage of the ethanol, the organic phase will still have some ethanol and a very small amount of water. Ethanol has a higher partition coefficient in water than hydrocarbons, so it tends to move into an aqueous phase, leaving an organic phase (think E10)

If you repeat this "extraction" several times, each time removing the aqueous phase you will remove nearly all the ethanol from the organic phase, and also the water.

Think about this. Every time you are buying E10, you are also paying for a small amount of water. How much? Depends on the original E10 and how much moisture it has absorbed since. When E10 finally absorbs enough water to phase separate you a have mess in that more than 10% of the mixture forms an aqueous phase. Think about that in a 20-gal truck fuel tank.

Before E10 it would only take a % of water and it would separate, thats why dry gas (methyl or isopropyl alcohol) worked so well back then, bringing the water back into the organic phase. Old tractors had a glass "sediment" bowls where any separated water would collect before it ran into the fuel line/carburator. The main problem with the separate water phase, besides making things run like ****, was the water could freeze in cold weather. So dry gas really did two things, redissolve any water which separated, and also prevented any separated water phase from freezing.

Bottom line, if you want to remove the ethanol from E10, it will take several extractions to remove, and several small extractions work better than a single large one.

You pre-lab reading for chainsaw organic chemistry lab is over.........

 

[Franny K]

Nope.

..........
You pre-lab reading for chainsaw organic chemistry lab is over.........

Nice write up, The part that I quoted saying did not make sense was a layer with pure water and a layer with water and ethanol.

Admittedly I got a bit confused by the organic. I believe both gasoline and alcohol are carbon chain molecules, alcohols have and OH hanging off somewhere. It has been a long time.

 

[Mad Professor]

Nice write up, I could have done sort of similar. the part that I quoted saying did not make sense was a layer with pure water and a layer with water and ethanol.

Years ago I took a job not far from you. People I told said : "You'll like the Yukon!". But it was the other, U-Conn.

 

[barton174]

I'd be SUPER careful doing that! MTBE has been replaced by ethanol as the component that sets the octane of the fuel. By removing the ethanol from E10, you end up with 82-84 octane gasoline. You'd need to run some octane boost, but a lot of octane boosters are made of... alcohol/ethanol...

Seriously, I'm not sure why you even bother? Just use 91-93 E10 and the additive that counteracts the effects of ethanol on fuel system parts, and drain the fuel in the off-season. Done.

Mike

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Years ago I took a job not far from you. People I told said : "You'll like the Yukon!". But it was the other, U-Conn.

A friend played ball for them a few yes ago.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

No ethanol here. I'll fill up some mason jars and mail you all normal gas. Haha!