De-ethanoling your fuel

[astnmacgto]

Great discussion gentlemen.

I am a firefighter/paramedic and the affinity of co to bind with hemoglobin is significantly higher than oxygen, correct. There are two types of co poisoning, 1) long term low level exposure and 2) short term high level exposure. #2 typically causes headaches, flu like symptoms, passing out, lethargy And death. #1 on the other hand is also extremely dangerous, recently studies have shown firefighters that have chronic exposure to low levels of co have a significantly higher rate of memory loss/dimentia and a whole slew of other medical conditions.

Not that anyone on here has ever advocating smelling exhaust, any and all products of combustion are bad for us... my firehouse recently received a very large grant to put in a full vacuum based exhaust removal system. We had our station air analyzed and they were below federal standards.

In summary CO bad... long term low level exposure is worse than we ever suspected and always run equipment in well ventilated environments. If you smell exhaust, reconsider what you can do to make it such that you aren't breathing it in.


Jason


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That's the kind of science I like to hear!

 

[Firemoore98]

A good friend of mine at the firehouse had his doctor call him on a Sunday recently about his blood results, EXTREMELY high lead levels...

My friend is a hazardous materials specialist and had not been on a significant call in the last year that would explain his high lead levels. He did although recall shooting a brick of 500 22cal bullets at an indoor range about 2 weeks before his blood test.

It took several months for his lead levels to subside, but atomized lead from shooting 22 at an indoor range was the most likely culprit.

Sorry for story hour, carry on. I do enjoy fuel discussions, I've posted similar threads myself. I am considering aviation fuel as I have small rural airports within a couple miles.



Jason


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[astnmacgto]

A good friend of mine at the firehouse had his doctor call him on a Sunday recently about his blood results, EXTREMELY high lead levels...

My friend is a hazardous materials specialist and had not been on a significant call in the last year that would explain his high lead levels. He did although recall shooting a brick of 500 22cal bullets at an indoor range about 2 weeks before his blood test.

It took several months for his lead levels to subside, but atomized lead from shooting 22 at an indoor range was the most likely culprit.

Sorry for story hour, carry on. I do enjoy fuel discussions, I've posted similar threads myself. I am considering aviation fuel as I have small rural airports within a couple miles.



Jason


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Yeah, one thing is for sure, when you are doing something like that your talking about massive amounts of lead in the air. For the avgas to contain as much lead as the bullets in that instance would make it almost slushy, but that's only speculation on my part

 

[Boomer 87]

I can see at an indoor range although the air purification systems in those buildings are supposed to be stellar. But out in the great wide open, i can imagine the fumes being able to linger long enough to really hurt you, not to mention you typically dont stand in one place all day when cutting firewood.

 

[Chris-PA]

It took several months for his lead levels to subside

Unfortunately, lead and mercury are removed from your blood relatively quickly, and that just makes the tests look good - the real problem is all the other places the heavy metal is bound up, preventing proper functioning of various systems. It takes a heck of a lot more time to get rid of it from there.

 

[Tenderfoot]

Unfortunately, lead and mercury are removed from your blood relatively quickly, and that just makes the tests look good - the real problem is all the other places the heavy metal is bound up, preventing proper functioning of various systems. It takes a heck of a lot more time to get rid of it from there.

Thats why I limit my exposure whenever I can. Lead is NASTY stuff. Copper is pretty bad too. Saws are dangerous enough. Best to remove any risk you can.

 

[Mad Professor]

I have a small airport ~2 miles from my house (closer than the gas station).
https://www.airnav.com/airport/KIWI

Airport Services
Fuel available: 100LL JET-A
24 HR CREDIT CARD FUEL OPN

Is the 100LL safe for the saw or will the lead create issues?

For the saws I've only seen a bit of buildup on the spark plugs that comes right off with a bronze toothbrush. The mix seems to store forever in a sealed metal can away from heat. The saw may tune a bit different so might have to adjust Hi/Lo

Not the best stuff to spill on your skin and the fumes will also have some lead. If you are milling or running lots of equipment every day might be good to find non-E10. A couple stations just started selling 92 premium non-E10 and that goes into all my equipment besides the two-strokes that don't get used much. It's also my stash if I run out of 100LL.

I don't believe even non-E10 stores as well as AV gas

 

[Amp4027]

For the saws I've only seen a bit of buildup on the spark plugs that comes right off with a bronze toothbrush. The mix seems to store forever in a sealed metal can away from heat. The saw may tune a bit different so might have to adjust Hi/Lo

Not the best stuff to spill on your skin and the fumes will also have some lead. If you are milling or running lots of equipment every day might be good to find non-E10. A couple stations just started selling 92 premium non-E10 and that goes into all my equipment besides the two-strokes that don't get used much. It's also my stash if I run out of 100LL.

I don't believe even non-E10 stores as well as AV gas

Which would you recommend for longterm saw storage?
A) Drain gas, then fill with lil bit of Stihl Motomix and let run dry
B) Drain gas, then fill with lil bit of 100LL and let run dry

C) Fill up tank with Stihl Motomix and let sit
D) Fill up tank with 100LL and let sit

Or E) Run dry on Motomix or 100LL, then disassemble and blast out with carb cleaner in addition to teaspoon of 2-stroke oilmix into sparkplug hole.

 

[astnmacgto]

Which would you recommend for longterm saw storage?
A) Drain gas, then fill with lil bit of Stihl Motomix and let run dry
B) Drain gas, then fill with lil bit of 100LL and let run dry

C) Fill up tank with Stihl Motomix and let sit
D) Fill up tank with 100LL and let sit

Or E) Run dry on Motomix or 100LL, then disassemble and blast out with carb cleaner in addition to teaspoon of 2-stroke oilmix into sparkplug hole.

I would run dry on 100ll forget dismantling the carb, with a little bit of oil in the jug with the piston down so it gets into the transfer ports and into the crank case, then pull it over a few time with the plug out.

 

[7sleeper]

Which would you recommend for longterm saw storage?
A) Drain gas, then fill with lil bit of Stihl Motomix and let run dry
B) Drain gas, then fill with lil bit of 100LL and let run dry

C) Fill up tank with Stihl Motomix and let sit
D) Fill up tank with 100LL and let sit

Or E) Run dry on Motomix or 100LL, then disassemble and blast out with carb cleaner in addition to teaspoon of 2-stroke oilmix into sparkplug hole.

What do you consider "long term storage"?

For 1/2 a year to a year, I don't worry a second with regular E10 and quality full synthetic 2 stroke oil.

For over a year I run the saw normally and on the last use I shut off the saw with the choke. I believe, although I have no proof, that the little bit more fuel/oil mix "inhaled" before stalling, provides a better distribution into the engine especially bearings, instead of dumping some oil threw the spark plug hole, which will only coat the cylinder walls and piston ring.

Further "Motomix, Aspen, etc." = all premix fuels are designed to have a ~5 year shelf life. If this is true for openend containers no one knows. But even then I would have absolutely no problem what so ever leaving my equipment for 3-5 years with the fuel stored inside.

And last storage WITH fuel means for me, tank full to the brim. When filling I often tilt my saws because I know they have "air pocket" areas so that the tank is NOT really full. Storage WITHOUT fuel means for me, empty the fuel tank and if you have a pump system, pump and empty the tank again a few times. You will be surprised how much fuel is in the fuel delivery system! Without a pump system, I pull the choke out full and with turned off engine pull the starter a few times.
Then I also store my two stroke equipment in ambient temperatures. That means for me NO larger temperature fluctuations. Having them stand on a sunny shelf in the window of the shed is about as bad as it can get!

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[Firemoore98]

I suppose a bit of opinion here, but option A is my favorite.

Jason


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[Boomer 87]

If draining a magnesium saw to store for a long time, i reccomend pouring a little trans fluid in the tank slosh it around and dump the excess out to keep from any white death.

 

[7sleeper]

Forgot to mention, when storing my saws without fuel I close the fuel cap loosely so that the rest of the gas can easily evaporate from the fuel tank.

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