I know a fairly large tree service guy close to me. He sorts his removed trees out and keeps the best stuff in his shop yard. On slow days to keep his guys on the payroll they cut and split this for firewood. He just tries to keep them busy and basically break even. He said he doesn't want to get into the firewood business, but it's a way that he can recoup some money without having to pay his men to stay home or lay them off in the bad weather. His space is limited as well. Maybe that's why your guy is doing this.
Deal or no deal?
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lknchoppers
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What do your competitors charge in your area? $230 a cord seems cheap.
jrider
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I'm not the highest but not on the lower end either. I hear from plenty of people that I'm too much and I still sell out so I feel that's a good mix.
He sounds like a good guy - not charging you for loads and now trying to bend over backwards to make you happy about quality.
At least give it a trial run. There are such things as win-win situations.
At least give it a trial run. There are such things as win-win situations.
jrider
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So what seemed to be too good to be true appears to be just that. He hasn't delivered any wood at all and we spoke today. He has come at me with a partnership plan again. As I said before, I trust him, but I do enjoy being my own boss and answering to no one. His idea is to supply the logs and let me use his TW-6 with log lift and 6 way wedge. I process and we share delivery duties for a 50/50 split. I have already thought about scaling things down after this year so I don't continue to destroy my back and to spend more time with the family. He knows my concerns and countered with lets give it a one year try. I have some thinking to do.
DSW
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Just from what you've said, I foresee him trying to influence you into his plan which may cause a rift between you two.
However it wouldn't worry me, YOU have the successful firewood business that sells out and has repeat customers. You can always get a new supplier, maybe it'll cost you, maybe it won't.
If he can't store a lot of wood split he can't store a lot of wood unsplit. He could find somebody else to take it but maybe that's more of a hassle for him, maybe not.
I think he wants a bigger piece of the pie and the easiest way would be utilizing your reputation. Maybe even feels he deserves it because he supplies you.
Surely he's making enough off tree removal to not be concerned with selling the wood.
However it wouldn't worry me, YOU have the successful firewood business that sells out and has repeat customers. You can always get a new supplier, maybe it'll cost you, maybe it won't.
If he can't store a lot of wood split he can't store a lot of wood unsplit. He could find somebody else to take it but maybe that's more of a hassle for him, maybe not.
I think he wants a bigger piece of the pie and the easiest way would be utilizing your reputation. Maybe even feels he deserves it because he supplies you.
Surely he's making enough off tree removal to not be concerned with selling the wood.
If you trust the guy and lay out the parameters of what you want/need from the relationship and he agrees, then it could work quite well.
if you find the cutting and splitting bit the hard part, and the delivery bit the easier bit, this deal sounds good and perhaps would allow you to continue to make a bit of side money for a few extra years while getting rid of the bit you find hardest
After going through the whole thread, what I think I understand:
1. You were getting wood for ~$40/cord from this service. Likely less.
2. Offer to sell you C/S wood at $130/cord.
3. Current offer - the same wood that was ~$40/cord supplied for you to cut and split for a 50% cut of your sale price.
(1) was a sweet deal.
(2) might work out.
(3) why would you do this? He gets a way to dispose of his (paid to complete the job) wood, you get the majority of the work involved in making it salable as firewood and he gets half the sale price? I don't see why you would consider this arrangement unless I'm not seeing something.
1. You were getting wood for ~$40/cord from this service. Likely less.
2. Offer to sell you C/S wood at $130/cord.
3. Current offer - the same wood that was ~$40/cord supplied for you to cut and split for a 50% cut of your sale price.
(1) was a sweet deal.
(2) might work out.
(3) why would you do this? He gets a way to dispose of his (paid to complete the job) wood, you get the majority of the work involved in making it salable as firewood and he gets half the sale price? I don't see why you would consider this arrangement unless I'm not seeing something.
I'm with you sundance. From the perspective of a tree company, I grew up in one, there is very little money in firewood. There is a lot of money in tree work. We only brought home Oak, Black Locust, and fruit tree wood. Dad guaranteed his climbers a half day pay if weather was too bad to work, so once in a blue moon, he would stick them in the barn for a few hours splitting wood to earn their half day. We had a farmers market that bought all of our other wood for $50 a dump truck load, 12' by 6' high chipper box. Splitting firewood is hard work, the men didn't like doing it. They would rather work in the rain or snow than on the wood pile. Some small companies mess with wood to make ends meet. I'm not commenting on whether this is a good or bad deal, just how we felt. We were booked 4-6 weeks out year round. If we could find good climbers we'd put on another crew. The last thing we wanted was to buy more equipment to process wood, why go into the firewood business when we had all the higher paying tree work we could handle. My cousin sold the family business to his BIL when he retired. The new owner doesn't bring any wood back to the shop, they have places to dump it on the way in. If his men want some for their own use, he has a spot they can dump it and they have to come in early every morning and split it and have it gone by the end of the week. If he has a dependable place to dump on the way in every day I'd think he would be a happy camper. If he had to go out of the way to dump, maybe a nominal fee for fuel. Kind of like the original deal you had. We were good about cutting everything to 20", if the wood was coming in at 12" on big wood and 30" on little poles, I wouldn't pay anything for it, no way no how. Too much waist.
The no way no how comment is not for scroungers that are willing to burn anything they can get in their stove. You decide what is a good deal for you. The comment is for someone selling wood trying to put a top notch product on the market, Joe.
The no way no how comment is not for scroungers that are willing to burn anything they can get in their stove. You decide what is a good deal for you. The comment is for someone selling wood trying to put a top notch product on the market, Joe.
jrider
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You make a good point but there are some reasons why I would consider it. I would continue to have a steady supplier of wood and this would mean easier, smaller logs to process. I would have full use of his TW-6 which has 4 and 6 way and a log lift. Also, deliveries would be split evenly. I threw this out there to hear what people had to say about it. I'm leaning towards not doing it and have been from the beginning but hearing different perspectives never hurts.
To look at it a different way: how much would you make on a dollar per hour basis on the new versus old system?
No partners ever! Do it your self you already are. Mark my words.
A lot to be said for that also, Joe.
I'm just reading and offering thoughts. Nothing but a hack with a little business sense.
Where are the "easier, smaller logs" going now? You said he has no storage capability.
I don't know what you're using now (and have no knowledge of a TW-6 as described). Is it a massive upgrade for you? If so, beyond your ability to fund?
If you split deliveries of the wood I assume it's all being done under your name. Looking at the one time offer of cut and split wood which didn't happen it would appear his crew is not on board with his plan. Are you sure you want them representing you on 50% of the deliveries?
It still sounds to me like you're doing the (unfunded by other work) bulk of the labor and cutting your side of the profit dramatically. Your decision obliviously but I'm really not seeing what's in it for you unless it's so hard to find wood that any supply is worth while.
jrider
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jrider
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I currently use an iron and oak with a 4 way. No log lift. His splitter is around 10k new and can pump out the splits. As I said before, am just looking for insight. You seem to be no way at all and you may just be right.
Faster horses, younger women, and more money. I can't say yay or nay. I'm not in your shoes. I know you've told us before, but I forget, how old are you, how much does this work mean to your lively hood? I'm 61, I only need about 10 cord. I load my trailer up Monday, split and stack Tuesday and Wednesday. Mow two, one acre yards Thursday and two more Friday. I'm almost up to my 10 cord so I can take off any M,T,W I want. I know enough tree guys I could have ten cord a week free, don't want it, don't need it. But if your ten years younger than me, you've got the hustle left in you to do it. It physically pains me to think you have to pay to do hard work. When I was at UPS, management would cry that our profit margin dropped a quarter of 1 percent, but our market share went up by 4 percent. That's an incredible amount of money on several billion dollars. Is your net income going up or are you doing twice the work, with a nicer machine to break even. Before I made the deal, I'd be contacting every tree guy with in 20 miles, telling them you had a straight in and out spot and would take all you can get of good wood. Just put as much effort into new sources as your are in the one good guy you have. Firewood was zero percent of our company profits, because my Dad gave all the wood that came to the yard to me. I can't believe this guy is putting the squeeze on you. Dad retired in 86 and his last full year in business he grossed about $800,000. If we sold 100 cord @ $100 per cord, that would have been $10,000. What the heck is $10, 000 when you are making almost a million bucks a year. Now, we never sold that much wood. The most I ever sold was about 30 cord. But the firewood, the necessary evil, added up to nothing compared to the real work we did. I'm trying to be civil, and see things through your eyes. Me, I'd tell him to hire 4 or 5 illegals to process his wood and keep it for his greedy self. Processing the wood himself would cost more than he makes on it. His machine is a nice little machine, not a processor. It's too labor intensive for him to make anything on it. It wouldn't be for me, but it may be for you. It may work, but not for me, Joe.
split half Tuesday
split half Tuesday
jrider
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I passed on the offer. I got a call from a guy who owns an excavation business who was clearing land and looking to unload logs. He dropped off 3 30 yard dumpsters and 2 20 yarders. I also have picked up around 5 cords of free cut oak and have a few more feelers out there for really cheap/free wood all within 10 miles. So long story short, I will have more wood to process than I have time.
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