I have been doing spur removals for years but just recently incorporated a climb line (split tail system) for added safety. In the past I have only used two separate lanyards for tie points. I like the versatility of the climb line being that it is easier to move about in the canopy and for limb walking. My question is when I need to move away from my tie in point, is it safe to put your hands above the friction hitch and pull towards you when moving away(i.e. limb walking). I have read that it isn't when all of your weight is on the climb line( descending). Are some hitches better than others for this application? Again I am on spurs , so 95% of the time I am blocking down a single spar once I have pieced out the canopy, but if I need to get out of dodge for any reason do you have to have an eight to decend?
decending on split tail system
- Thread starter jaystihl
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Griff93
ArboristSite Operative
Which hitch are you using? I like a blakes personally. Some prefer a tautline. I don't usually carry an 8 with me. I descend to the ground with a blakes every time I'm not using a hitch climber (VT). Some people put the split tail and and their rope on the same carabiner. I like having them on separate biners so I can just take my rope off one side leaving the blakes tied and throw it around stuff. I don't know how you would be able limb walk without pulling your hitch down the rope as you walk out. Maybe I'm not understanding your question completely. Be careful descending to quickly on a blakes hitch as it puts a lot of the friction on one section of the hitch and has the potential to glaze/melt the rope. Inspect it frequently especially at first to make sure you don't have an issue.
To take some weight off of any hitch when descending, especially a long descent, take a foot lock of the rope then one hand on the hitch and one below or above the hitch, preferably gloved.
Thanks for the response guys. Griff you understood me, I just read in climbers companion that your not supposed to put your hands above the hitch because it can disable it and end up in a rapid decent. but there is no other way to advance away from tie in point.
I think it depends on your hitch, how you have it set and dressed, the condition/age of your rope/split tail, whether it's wet or not etc on how grabby it gets. I've had some hitches under the right conditions that require 2 hands pulling on the knot to get it to loosen. Others will slide if you look at them funny.
When you're limb walking you need to keep your hand near your hitch to loosen it off as you advance out the limb. I think the warning is primarily if you are footlocking with a prussic cord. Those can loosen off easily if you pull slightly on the knot and send you for a ride.
If you are blocking down a single stem, unless you have something acting as a false crotch (stub, adjustable friction saver) you can't safely bail out on a ddrt system. If you were take a single rope, attach one end to the stem (ie bowline on a bight) in front of you, then you could bail out on an 8.
Personally I prefer an adjustable friction saver.
When you're limb walking you need to keep your hand near your hitch to loosen it off as you advance out the limb. I think the warning is primarily if you are footlocking with a prussic cord. Those can loosen off easily if you pull slightly on the knot and send you for a ride.
If you are blocking down a single stem, unless you have something acting as a false crotch (stub, adjustable friction saver) you can't safely bail out on a ddrt system. If you were take a single rope, attach one end to the stem (ie bowline on a bight) in front of you, then you could bail out on an 8.
Personally I prefer an adjustable friction saver.
Thanks BC. just a quick question, are you saying its not a good idea if I have my climb line choked on the spar( with biner or running bowline) and then split tail to saddle, that I should nt bail out by just adjusting the hitch down in increments or does it just depend on how the system operates ( as far as how easily the hitch will slide). I borrowed an older set(split tail with the working end just going up and over tie in point and back to saddle) and I was able to descend fairly easily, and when I wanted to stop I simply let up on the hitch. just didn't know if it was safe? I recently bought a brand new 1/2" safety blue with a hi vee split tail( which is the same rope , just has color ) and haven't tried it yet , but from what I understand, the tail might have a hard time grabbing being that the tail is the same diameter as climb line. ???
It'll grab fine using the Blake's or taught line. I think it's using an eye and eye tail that recommends a smaller diameter.
With out a crotch or friction saver there is no safe way to bail out Ddrt.
With out a crotch or friction saver there is no safe way to bail out Ddrt.
mattfr12
The Bulldog
Using ice line or tenex types are supposed to be smaller. I use ice line tied in a distel with a hitch climber pulley to advance it. If I'm in a small tree were I don't need to recrotch alot I use a blakes. I climb on imori and the blakes and taunt line Bite very well with it.
I really like using these new ropes that are closer to a 1/2 inch. It has taken alot of stress off my hands I used poison ivy and other smaller lines for years and man would my hands be all cramped up after a long day of pulling around.
mattfr12
The Bulldog
You can run down just as fast as anything else on these knots. I have destroyed the tail or eye to eye cords getting away from bees. They were still smoking when I hit the ground and melted.
If you run into trouble you would just be wasting time switching to a rescue 8 or something similar.
You will need aditional hardware to climb on a line you have chocked to the tree with a bowline the knot will get to tight. These knots are meant for double rope technique unless a rope wrench or something else takes some of the weight off the hitch.
If you run into trouble you would just be wasting time switching to a rescue 8 or something similar.
You will need aditional hardware to climb on a line you have chocked to the tree with a bowline the knot will get to tight. These knots are meant for double rope technique unless a rope wrench or something else takes some of the weight off the hitch.
CanopyGorilla
climber....sawyer
IMO every climber should know how to get out of a tree with one knot, one hitch, and one carabinier. Hint: bowline, munter, caribener. Done.
CanopyGorilla
climber....sawyer
Its not the best way, but let's say squirrels steel all your fancy gadgets, a t-rex cuts your line, and Ron Jeremy steels your split tail, its best to know how to still get out.... I have only been doing tree work for 4 years but I have 13 years rigging and rope access experience and I am amazed by the lack of rope work knowledge of some tree guys.
If you choke your line to the tree, you won't be able to descend on your split tail, the hitch will lock up due to the pressure on it.
In a ddrt system, your hitch only takes 1/2 your weight, (the other half being taken by the other end of the rope). If you try and due srt with your split tail, your entire weight will be on the hitch which will cause it to lock up. That is why the rope wrench or hitch hiker is used on srt, as the rope wrench or dog bone(on the hitch hiker) adds enough friction to the system to allow the hitch to move.
What I was assuming is that you wanted to ddrt, which would require a crotch or false crotch for the rope to run around.
TheShanks
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Guys are using cambium savers for this very reason. I may have heard wrong but pretty soon in the US you are required to carry one or climb with some method of bailout when climbing a spar. Guys set it up along with their flip line(s) and have their climbing rope already running through the pully or caribiner like a crotch and then use their normal decending knot.
Great points , bc and mattfr, . Yes I was talking about ddrt. So I now know I can safely bail out with split tail( blakes is what I have been using?) on ddrt. But on a spar that hitch will get to tight. Being that it is not double loaded. Mattfr said I would need additional hardware to bail on single spar but its would take to much time rig an eight if I was in trouble, which I agree. Can anyone tell me the best peice ( hardware) to use, that I could already have rigged and ready? Thats good for just decending, or for a speedy bailout.
I haven't purchased one quite yet ( I will as soon as my hours are back to normal) but I've read quite a bit of good reviews on the hitch hiker. Can be used srt or drt and is simple to switch back and forth. I'm sure that there is a thread on it somewhere on this site
jomoco
Tree Freak
You forgot ability to get out of a tree, or down a spar, with just one hand or arm?
I know that shattered clavs disable the entire arm function on whichever side gets it?
So the old school three fingered taughtline hitch's about the only descending knot I know of that can be tied in a jiffy with one hand only.
Good thread subject for 101, no doubt!
jomoco
You would want the adjustable friction saver. It'll set up as a false crotch and easily move up and down the spar with you.
http://www.wesspur.com/friction-savers/friction-saver.html Go half way down the page to the adjustable friction saver.
Dicey. Why not a choked bowline, (long tail. 6-8' so it can be retrieved when you've spiked down to your next work postion) with a soft locked 8? They're like 10$ at treestuff. Even tie your split tail ABOVE your eight for a redundant failsafe if you go squirrely on your 8?
This, of course, is NOT meant for ascent. Stick with your ddrt for ascent, and working the tree.
Now, you're down to a spar. At this point you can incorporate my above post.
A soft locked eight will take the whole weight off your spurs, and its extremely easy to unlock and bail in an emergency situation. Its retrieveable, and you can do it with your climbing line you have, rather than dragging around a fimbl saver and having it **** whipping into your face during retreival.
If you choose to add your split tail into the system above your eight for added security, descend with hitch as regular while tailing slack through your eight.
The eight will add enough friction to the rope entering your hitch, so that the Blake's won't bind up. Which allows you to use your hitch on a single leg of line. With minimal gear.
Pm me if you have questions. Stay safe homer! Keep striving to know more! You're the man!
Now, you're down to a spar. At this point you can incorporate my above post.
A soft locked eight will take the whole weight off your spurs, and its extremely easy to unlock and bail in an emergency situation. Its retrieveable, and you can do it with your climbing line you have, rather than dragging around a fimbl saver and having it **** whipping into your face during retreival.
If you choose to add your split tail into the system above your eight for added security, descend with hitch as regular while tailing slack through your eight.
The eight will add enough friction to the rope entering your hitch, so that the Blake's won't bind up. Which allows you to use your hitch on a single leg of line. With minimal gear.
Pm me if you have questions. Stay safe homer! Keep striving to know more! You're the man!
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