Decisions, decisions! (Poll)

[owbguy]

Steve you can add stand alone heat exchangers to owb. They look similar to hot dawg heaters, only much smaller. Check this link: http://www.centralboiler.com/Tech/C350.pdf
This would be ideal for your basement since its more or less a large space heater. You can also do radiant but that adds up quickly in cost.

Wood stoves are cheaper, but more labor intensive and more risky. The owb may cost more, but only in the short term, and there is less labor and less risk. Owb is the cat's ass.

Another factor is your space. If its super small space you're heating then maybe the 2 stoves is best.

 

[porta mill]

if you have the time and energy and the supplyof wood an owb is the way to go . yes the up front cost is steep but in the long run it will pay it self off in a few years especially if you had to heat with oil or Lp. I will warn you do your homework on OWB's talk to everyone in the area that have different brands add up all the different pro's and cons of each unit . Also do not be cheap with the underground piping , you get what you pay for in the long run .I think it was mentioned you have duct work already in place a heat exchanger in the plenum will heat the house . for the basement you could use hot water base board or do like I did for my unfinished basement get a few old cast iron radiators they put off alot of heat . I the return line or if you decide to install a manifold a plate exchanger could be put in the system for all your domestic hot water . Most OWB's have two inlet and out lets for your future shop garage. I am heating two houses houses and all the domestic hot water roughly 3,500 -4,000 square Ft for both houses using an average ten cord year . I use hard wood and pine . Pine for the spring summer and fall mainly all hard wood during the cold months. OWB will consume alot of your time and energy gathering wood . if you have to buy wood you need to consider how much the wood will cost you .another consideration is support equipment , ie saws splitter truck and trailer to gater wood . I have a Empire 450 it has the burn tubes in the side walls .besides a few electrical componets I have not had any big problems. One last thing if it is in your bugger get a stainless steel unit. good luck with your heating decisions.

 

[branchbuzzer]

I'm probably more undecided now than I was before I started this post, and my head hurts now. I think I will go cut some wood to make that go away.

Our work here is done.

Maybe just throw a dart at a board to decide. A pint of ale with it will help that headache too.

 

[Beefie]

My vote is new inside wood furnace. Keep wood consumption the same or better and you already have your storage areas in the basement for wood. So you now it will stay dry. I like the fact That I can wake up and walk down in the basement and throw some wood in and sit and enjoy the warmth. Duct work can be sdded but you might be surprised at what they can do with it .


Beefie

 

[MN Ripper]

Upgrade the wood furnace-old habits die hard, why change now. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[chucker]

steve, just go get yourself a daka 550 cfm -521fb and be done with it... l&m fleet has them on sale for less then 800.00....

 

[bcorradi]

steve, just go get yourself a daka 550 cfm -521fb and be done with it... l&m fleet has them on sale for less then 800.00....

He doesn't have any L&M's close to him. They are only northern and central, mn to my knowledge. They are great stores though and I have one less than 15 miles away in Detroit Lakes.

I'm not familiar with the Daka 550, but it may be something for him to look into.

 

[ktlm]

Don't know alot about the other options but I put a wood furnace in the basement and now our house is way warmer than with Nat. gas and the wood use is not as bad as I thought it would be.
Everyone told me about 10 cords. Probably more like 4 or 5. Have fun with the project.
Kevin

 

[centennial60]

steve, just go get yourself a daka 550 cfm -521fb and be done with it... l&m fleet has them on sale for less then 800.00....

I have a slightly used Daka 622FBT that I would sell you if you're interested.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

After replacing windows, and doing the insulation/caulking, how about redoing the ductwork? If you have a full basement, you can get rid of the substandard subpar ductwork installed on so many manufactured homes, and get a nice oil/gas and wood furnace and install there, install new supply ductwork (properly sized of course), use the old counterflow furnace opening to do your return duct thru.

 

[Steve NW WI]

On the Dakas, I've looked at them at Menards, they're made in Pine City, not much more than an hour from me. Problem is, if I'm gonna spend money on doing it right, I'm gonna include a high efficiency furnace like a Yukon, Kuuma, Caddy or whatever. Daka doesn't make anything like that.

Mikey, if I go the furnace route, there's gonna be some ducting rework for sure, maybe a lot of it. I'll have a HVAC guy make some recommendations (and probably do the ducting). It might mean a lot of moving stuff around downstairs, though.

I'm suprised I haven't heard more from the stove guys.

 

[mga]

I'm gonna rework my heating system pretty soon - read this summer. I was pretty sold on another wood furnace down in the basement, but I'm trying to weigh all my options. Here's your shot at influencing my decisions, giving me ideas I haven't thought of yet, or just voting on a poll for the fun and giggles of it.

Here's the background. My house is a 16x70 trailer, sitting on a full basement with 7' floor to ceiling clearance, mostly unfinished. Water, gas, and furnace plumbing hang below the floor. I have an old Woodchuck wood furnace down there for my main heat, with a gas wall heater for emergency/vacation use, not normally in service. Upstairs is the factory LP forced air (have yet to light the pilot this year, but been close the last week of colder weather). Currently, I burn 8 cords a year on average. I have the house to myself and the dog and cat, but that's subject to change. The biggest problem with the current setup is even heat distribution. It's commonly close to 90 downstairs, and in the mid 60s in the furthest corners upstairs. I have 3 different fans running to minimize this right now.

Here's where it gets fun, fellow woodburners. I've got 3 options I've been thinking of:

Option 1: New wood furnace downstairs, possibly a combo wood/lp backup. I'd be installing a new chimney (SS, inside the house) for this, as well as having some low hanging ductwork near the stove to meet needed clearances. I THINK I could tie into the factory ductwork for upstairs, and run ducts to the ends of the basement for better heat distribution. Cost: $7000 give or take a grand probably.

Option 2: OWB, gasifier type. I've got lots of room for it, no restrictions here yet, and it'd keep wood mess outside along with not needing to get wood downstairs. Biggest drawback is cost, I'd be looking at a HX for the upstairs furnace, and a baseboard system downstairs. Probably north of $10K by the time it's all said and done.

Option 3: Big wood stove down in the basement for main heat (as above, new chimney. Had it beyond up to here with my current outside block and clay chimney), and a smaller wood stove upstairs. I'm guessing that the small stove would be real handy on those days when it's just a little chilly in spring and fall, but lighting the big stove takes too long to heat the upstairs, so you wind up cold or tempted to touch the dreaded slider in the hallway and hear that evil whoof sound. It'd also run when it's subzero outside and the bigger stove can't keep the whole place toasty. Downsides of this are 2 stoves and chimneys to maintain, and I'd probably wind up remodeling the downstairs to have the stove in the main area. Upside is it's probably the lowest cost option, especially with being able to do it in stages, instead of writing one big check.

Option 4: Your call. Let me know what you'd do differently than what I've already come up with.

your state has some listed here:

WDNR - Open Burning - Model Ordinance

 

[woodman6666]

Steve I wouldnt be so quick to write off the geo. A little more money up front but as you get older, just flipping a switch in the spring and fall sure is easier than any wood I have cut.

 

[Steve NW WI]

your state has some listed here:

WDNR - Open Burning - Model Ordinance

MGA, the link you gave is just a sample ordinance for counties to use when they write ordinances, and use whatever sections of it they want. My county has no OWB restrictions, but if I do go OWB, it will be well set back from the neighbors across the street, just to be nice and avoid any future problems.

Steve I wouldnt be so quick to write off the geo. A little more money up front but as you get older, just flipping a switch in the spring and fall sure is easier than any wood I have cut.

I didn't rule it out, I just need to learn a LOT more about it before I really consider it. Got any good sites to read up on it more?

 

[Chris-PA]

I'm suprised I haven't heard more from the stove guys.

Hey, there's nothing more to say - it's the best solution.:msp_sneaky:

Seriously though, it's the least expensive, least complex solution. There's always a cost to complexity even if it isn't always obvious.

I've been designing equipment for the electric utility industry for 25 years and have a fairly good idea what kind of shape the infrastructure and the organizations that run it are in. I like stuff that doesn't require power. 'Nuff said.

 

[H-Ranch]

I guess it depends on how long you plan to be there. Is this your dream retirement home? If not then spend less or plan on taking whatever you buy with you to the next house. For me, OWB was an easy choice since I don't plan on moving any time soon and the type of central heating adds no value since I'm not trying to sell the place.

 

[mga]

MGA, the link you gave is just a sample ordinance for counties to use when they write ordinances, and use whatever sections of it they want. My county has no OWB restrictions, but if I do go OWB, it will be well set back from the neighbors across the street, just to be nice and avoid any future problems.



I didn't rule it out, I just need to learn a LOT more about it before I really consider it. Got any good sites to read up on it more?

ok.....just wanted to be sure you did your home work before buying one.

good luck with it if you get one!

 

[Steve NW WI]

I guess it depends on how long you plan to be there. Is this your dream retirement home?

No, but that's probably 15 years down the road. By that time most of the trailer will need redoing again, and it'll get a real "Extreme Makeover" - think bulldozer - then. The house I build should be pretty easy to heat with one good sized stove, so a nice one downstairs now could move to the new house. If I go the 2 stove route, the upstairs one will likely be a cheaper model, and put most of the budget into the bigger downstairs stove. Logic is that the downstairs one will run more or less full time, and the upstairs one part time.

MGA, thanks anyway. I keep my ear to the ground pretty close on this stuff. The village I went to school on banned all wood, corn, etc. stoves, with exceptions for existing ones, and the city of Stillwater MN just across the border from me banned all OWBs this last year. (I think that one is being challenged last I heard, but it's still there.) Doesn't matter if you've just got a fireplace, a stove, a wood furnace, or an OWB, it pays to pay attention to these things and let your opinion be known when the subject comes up.

 

[morningwood]

Steve,

I have both a geothermal furnace and a PSG Caddy wood burning furnace. Wife and I have a 27 * 52 modular w/ no basement and over the summer of 2011 we put a 24 * 32 addition out the back. We are heating / cooling around 2200 now along with 768 sq of basement. The modular is insulated pretty well and the new addition is insulated ( r50 in the attic / spray foam walls ) really well.

I chose the Caddy over the OWB due to cost and wood usage. My neighbor has a EPA Certified OWB and he burns around 7 cord of wood a year. This is my first year with the Caddy and I have burned around 1.5 to 2 cord so far. This winter has been pretty mild so far. I would say if this was a "normal" year I would probably burn around 4 cord. We are both heating around the same sq footage.

When I was shopping for furnaces I looked at the Energy King 385EK and the PSG Caddy. The dealer I bought mine from just received the Enengy King so he was not that familiar with it. He said every time he sold a Caddy he knew he would have a happy customer. The Caddy is easier to clean than the Energy King, but the Caddy weighs less ( not sure if it matters or not ) and seems a little harder to get setup if you are not a electrician. The manual on the PSG is something to be desired IMHO. The manual for the Energy King seems more organized and does not look "cobbled together" like the PSG manual. I have no other complaints about the Caddy outside of the manual.

Your estimate for the cost of the furnace is more than double of what I paid for my Caddy. My neighbor says he has 11k into his OWB setup.

Before we put the addition on, we heated the modular with a EPA certified wood stove. I like the wood usage ( 2 cord max a year ) of the wood stove alot more than the furnace but the heat was not even by any stretch of the means. The area were the wood stove is at would be 75 and the bathroom, two rooms away would be 60 degrees.

If you or anybody else would like more information about the geo let me know and I can do a write up.

Thanks,

Scott