Depth of face cut

[bitzer]

A 10" wedge can tip a 10" tree. Knowing how to the cut the tree up is all you need.


The depth of face depends on so many different factors. For small timber like that though, you put in your entire backcut, pound a wedge in, and then face it. Just don't zip yer hinge off when matching your face cuts.

 

[bitzer]

Hey John what are those wedges for in the side of the log like that?

 

[fixit1960]

If the tree is leaning ahead, but isn't falling you need to cut the hinge up some more. 3" of hinge on any elm is a lot. Thats why it didn't tip. Also plastic wedges can be stacked. I always carry three. Leave the splittint wedges for splitting.

It wasn't leaning ahead. It was standing straight up. There was more limb mass to the east, not a lot but enough for me to know it would want to fall that direction. 3" of hinge is not too much on a 30" tree. Especially soft elm. Bust the hinge and you lose the tree.

And tell me, where is it written you can't use steel splitting wedges to drop a tree? As I mentioned in my post I had both my plastics stacked and was utilizing what I had. As long as you don't have to go back in to make more back cut, what is it with peoples fear of steel felling wedges? They used them for years. No different than when you use them to split. You are just driving them horizontally instead of vertically.

I'm starting to figure out your signature.

 

[slowp]

It wasn't leaning ahead. It was standing straight up. There was more limb mass to the east, not a lot but enough for me to know it would want to fall that direction. 3" of hinge is not too much on a 30" tree. Especially soft elm. Bust the hinge and you lose the tree.

And tell me, where is it written you can't use steel splitting wedges to drop a tree? As I mentioned in my post I had both my plastics stacked and was utilizing what I had. As long as you don't have to go back in to make more back cut, what is it with peoples fear of steel felling wedges? They used them for years. No different than when you use them to split. You are just driving them horizontally instead of vertically.

I'm starting to figure out your signature.

It's called "The right tool for the right job." Plastic wedges, or wooden, won't ruin your chain or your day when you accidently cut them. And everybody will have that happen sometime. You can always stack the wedges, as folks have already said, if you need more lift.

I've never ever seen a professional faller use a splitting wedge for falling a tree. Never. Not even "for years".

 

[fixit1960]

No

It's called "The right tool for the right job." Plastic wedges, or wooden, won't ruin your chain or your day when you accidently cut them. And everybody will have that happen sometime. You can always stack the wedges, as folks have already said, if you need more lift.

I've never ever seen a professional faller use a splitting wedge for falling a tree. Never. Not even "for years".

No it's called using you resources. I was out of plastic wedges and had two steel splitting wedges that I used.
What the hell are you people, the wedge Nazi's. It's my wedge, my chain, my saw and my tree, I'll use what I have to get the job done. I do not drop trees for a living, consequently I do not have a 1/2 dozen plastic wedges at my disposal. If I did this every day I would have a half dozen plastic, they are considerably lighter and less expensive and will not harm a chain, but I don't so I didn't. Have you ever used a screwdriver for a prybar?

 

[bitzer]

It wasn't leaning ahead. It was standing straight up. There was more limb mass to the east, not a lot but enough for me to know it would want to fall that direction. 3" of hinge is not too much on a 30" tree. Especially soft elm. Bust the hinge and you lose the tree.

And tell me, where is it written you can't use steel splitting wedges to drop a tree? As I mentioned in my post I had both my plastics stacked and was utilizing what I had. As long as you don't have to go back in to make more back cut, what is it with peoples fear of steel felling wedges? They used them for years. No different than when you use them to split. You are just driving them horizontally instead of vertically.


I'm starting to figure out your signature.

I log for a living buddy. Like production logging, not making firewood logging. 3 inches is a lot of hinge in all hardwoods. In hickory, ash, or white oak its pretty easy to chair them with that thick of a hinge. Elm has long fibers( real fun to split right?) That means it has tremendous holding strength. Elm will typically stay on the stump longer than most hardwoods I know. I've punded another axe in my backcut as a wedge when I didn't have one, but that doesn't make it right. A splitting wedge has no give to it and very little taper. Its really easy to put extra pressure on your hinge and maybe even break it if your not careful. When you stack wedges you are moving them in slowly, one at a time. It gives the tree some time to move and the fibers to bend. I run about 2 gallons thru my saw a day which equates to about 1500-1800 hours of cuttin timber a year. I've put a few trees on the ground.

 

[slowp]

No



No it's called using you resources. I was out of plastic wedges and had two steel splitting wedges that I used.
What the hell are you people, the wedge Nazi's. It's my wedge, my chain, my saw and my tree, I'll use what I have to get the job done. I do not drop trees for a living, consequently I do not have a 1/2 dozen plastic wedges at my disposal. If I did this every day I would have a half dozen plastic, they are considerably lighter and less expensive and will not harm a chain, but I don't so I didn't. Have you ever used a screwdriver for a prybar?

Wedge Nazi? Maybe. I don't like to see folks promoting unsafe practices. Continue using your splitting wedge, but don't encourage others to do so.

 

[fixit1960]

Wedge Nazi? Maybe. I don't like to see folks promoting unsafe practices. Continue using your splitting wedge, but don't encourage others to do so.

I don't feel I was promoting an unsafe practice. Cutting and felling trees is an inherently dangerous occupation/job/hobby. Common sense plays a huge part in the successful completion of this task. I used what I had, knowing the dangers it posed. I knew when I drove them in the back cut I would not safely be able to deepen the back cut unless I got the wedges out first. I was far enough into the process that that wasn't going to happen.

Concerning your above statement, are you telling me that they had plastic felling wedges before they had steel splitting wedges that were used to wedge trees when felling? I maintain the driving factor in the development of plastic felling wedges were due to their lightness primarily. Ease of carrying to and from the timber. The added benefit of not fubaring a chain if the back cut had to be deepened and you inadvertently struck the wedge was just an added plus. My philosophy is know where your chain is at all times in relation to the wedge and you can still deepen that back cut, even using steel. It's about control.

How about you know how deep to make the back cut, and then you wont have to go back in and deepen it. That's being professional. I would question how "professional" a cutter was that regularly had to go back in and deepen the back cut after he pulled his bar out the first time. You should know how much hinge you want/need, cut to that point, wedge behind you if necessary to keep from pinching and then when the bar is out drive the wedge home.

 

[zogger]

No



No it's called using you resources. I was out of plastic wedges and had two steel splitting wedges that I used.
What the hell are you people, the wedge Nazi's. It's my wedge, my chain, my saw and my tree, I'll use what I have to get the job done. I do not drop trees for a living, consequently I do not have a 1/2 dozen plastic wedges at my disposal. If I did this every day I would have a half dozen plastic, they are considerably lighter and less expensive and will not harm a chain, but I don't so I didn't. Have you ever used a screwdriver for a prybar?

Oh, you ain't the only one. I have used steel splitting wedges to fell before, and a ton of home made cut on the site wooden wedges. It's only been since I joined this site that I got plastic wedges, and yep, some are chewed up a scosh

It doesn't hurt to get more tools as you need them, all of us do that I think, but an immediate need, and you don't have the "proper" equipment, yep, you use what ya got, improvise, MacGuyver it, whatever.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Wedge Nazi? Maybe. I don't like to see folks promoting unsafe practices. Continue using your splitting wedge, but don't encourage others to do so.

Wedge Nazi! Lol

 

[slowp]

I don't feel I was promoting an unsafe practice. Cutting and felling trees is an inherently dangerous occupation/job/hobby. Common sense plays a huge part in the successful completion of this task. I used what I had, knowing the dangers it posed. I knew when I drove them in the back cut I would not safely be able to deepen the back cut unless I got the wedges out first. I was far enough into the process that that wasn't going to happen.

Concerning your above statement, are you telling me that they had plastic felling wedges before they had steel splitting wedges that were used to wedge trees when felling? I maintain the driving factor in the development of plastic felling wedges were due to their lightness primarily. Ease of carrying to and from the timber. The added benefit of not fubaring a chain if the back cut had to be deepened and you inadvertently struck the wedge was just an added plus. My philosophy is know where your chain is at all times in relation to the wedge and you can still deepen that back cut, even using steel. It's about control.

How about you know how deep to make the back cut, and then you wont have to go back in and deepen it. That's being professional. I would question how "professional" a cutter was that regularly had to go back in and deepen the back cut after he pulled his bar out the first time. You should know how much hinge you want/need, cut to that point, wedge behind you if necessary to keep from pinching and then when the bar is out drive the wedge home.

Oh good grief! Here we go. If you want, why not return to the days of misery whips? Or axes? Or rock hatchets. Some trivia: A standard plastic wedge won't work when cutting with a crosscut saw. Thinner kerf. We do use aluminum wedges for bucking with those. But I wish we had plastic. The aluminum wedges are heavy to pack in.

Trees can change from what you think they are going to do, to something else in a hurry. There is no standard face cut or even back cut. I'm not a faller but I know that one can misread a tree or have something unforeseen happen.

Guess you have to be around it a bit to understand.

Heil Plastic.

 

[fixit1960]

Oh good grief! Here we go. If you want, why not return to the days of misery whips? Or axes? Or rock hatchets. Some trivia: A standard plastic wedge won't work when cutting with a crosscut saw. Thinner kerf. We do use aluminum wedges for bucking with those. But I wish we had plastic. The aluminum wedges are heavy to pack in.

Trees can change from what you think they are going to do, to something else in a hurry. There is no standard face cut or even back cut. I'm not a faller but I know that one can misread a tree or have something unforeseen happen.

Guess you have to be around it a bit to understand.

Heil Plastic.

My intention of sharing the original post was just that, to share. I did not include a disclaimer concerning the hazards associated with using a steel wedge for felling. Common sense in my book. Would I have used plastic if I had had more? Yes. Definitely better due to the safety factor and being lighter. Would I, in the same circumstances use the steel felling again? Yes, with caution. The thickness of the splitting wedge at the heel is the same as 2 plastic 10" wedges, so in the end that thickness was what I needed anyway. Taper is a little steeper on the splitting wedges but if you drive them a ways and wait and then go again it gives the tree time to react. Also gives you time to catch your breath. The only issue I had with a wedge spitting out of the cut, was the plastic one.

I am not attempting to say a steel wedge is better, I'm saying if it is all you have and you use it carefully you can get the job done. I don't have the luxury of a supply store that close to me on a Sunday to take off and get more equipment. I do plan on getting some more, but in a pinch I would do it again the same way.

It did drop exactly where I wanted it with no surprises. I had looked it over and planned the drop for over a week, waiting for a day with no wind and the right amount of available time in my schedule to drop it. I had limbed out a couple of smaller branches I could reach to reduce the off center mass. It wasn't a spur of the moment tree drop. Although I don't cut professionally I have been dropping trees for 30 years. Never had one go bad yet, knock on wood....

And no, I would prefer not to have to use a misery whip. That would be better suited for the forests of Washington State.

And as far as the chastisement concerning the steel wedges, I didn't know I was in the professional logger forum...

 

[KiwiBro]

Hands-up who knew where this thread would head before it even got off the first page?


*edit* I too use steel wedges from time to time. Don't get me wrong; I've about 30 plastic wedges and not afraid to use 'em, but call me a Southern knuckle-dragging, nose-breather all you like because I sometimes like pounding on steel in the bigger trees just for a change. Has a nice sound and feel when you hit'm right and feels terrible when get it wrong. Yes, I even take a sledgehammer to 'em if don't have to pack it all in.

 

[KiwiBro]

I didn't know I was in the professional logger forum...

Dead or injured pros don't get paid and every day they deal with the risk that if they screw up they may not make it home, leaving their families without a brother/sister, father/mother, uncle/aunty, husband/wife, etc. So you can bet your donkey they have a vested interest in doing it right first time, and have learned enough to know that foreseeing and dealing with 'what-if' scenarios in advance is the best way.

So, they have a lot to offer us plebs, if we are so inclined to listen, think and question respectfully. I can almost guarantee their wisdom which they have shared so willingly, has saved my backside, probably a few cars, countless fences and a coupla buildings and at least one house roof over the years. So I'm inclined to listen to 'em, when they feel the need to communicate something.

 

[rwoods]

fixit1960,

On the face of the posts, it looks more like you are baiting for an argument than wanting a legitimate discussion. When some experienced logging folks reply you go berserk. What is up with that? What's your basis to ridicule posters for stating the safe and recommended method? Good practices are not limited to a particular forum.

If you want a discussion, let's start here:

I must have missed the post that says you cannot use steel wedges. The OP said he was using steel splitting wedges so I cautioned him to be careful because in my limited experience these wedges are much more prone to quickly spit out. As you pointed out the other dangers should be readily apparent such as hitting the wedge with the saw chain or when bucking having the wedge slide down and hit the saw chain.

Where is it written, you ask. If this was a true question and not simply a statement of your position, I would tell you to try Google where you will find it written by professionals not to use steel splitting wedges - most citing the risk of hitting the saw chain. Many wedging sources don't address splitting wedges or wedge materials because it is assumed one is using a proper falling wedge (which in the good old USA appears now to mean plastic or aluminum, magnesium or some other soft metal). Google "steel falling wedges" if you want to see pictures of the old steel falling wedges; they look pretty much like a modern plastic wedge - not even close in appearance to a splitting wedge.

Can you use steel splitting wedges? Yes. Should you? Rarely, if ever. Can you cut without any PPE? Yes. Should you? Rarely, if ever. I have done both, but just because you, I and many others have done it doesn't mean one should.

You will also find it written by some that wooden wedges shouldn't be used due to reliability concerns. I doubt there are many here who have not had to improvise with a wood wedge at least once in their careers when bucking and a few while falling. Do I recommend routine use of wood wedges for falling? Absolutely not. Do some take great pride in making and using wood wedges? Apparently so.


Chill and be safe.

Ron

 

[CUCV]

You can get alot of lift by doing this, reduced chance of spitting out a wedge than traditionally stacked wedges and there are three great locations for steel splitting wedges

 

[Gypo Logger]

I finaly got that oak tree on the ground.

 

[rwoods]

CUCV, do you rely on the wedge to split out the wood slice, or do you plunge cut the sides similar to the Palm tree tongue and groove cut?

Ron

 

[Gypo Logger]

You can get alot of lift by doing this, reduced chance of spitting out a wedge than traditionally stacked wedges and there are three great locations for steel splitting wedges

WTF? Lol

 

[CUCV]

CUCV, do you rely on the wedge to split out the wood slice, or do you plunge cut the sides similar to the Palm tree tongue and groove cut?

Ron

Just plunge cuts for the wedges nothing vertical on the sides, works great.